Author Topic: ILDA is over  (Read 169827 times)

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Offline Fanny Pack

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Re: ILDA is over
« Reply #45 on: July 05, 2010, 06:51:50 pm »
Go and reread posts #1, #9, #11, and #12.   Especially #9.

Nevermind.  I got the numbers wrong. I have a different suggestion but I'll drop it.

Offline James

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Re: ILDA is over
« Reply #46 on: July 05, 2010, 07:31:25 pm »
Don't worry about it Gary. You can be sure I ALWAYS read what I write!

James.  :)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2010, 07:57:56 pm by James »
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Offline meandean

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Re: ILDA is over
« Reply #47 on: July 06, 2010, 12:56:41 am »
  James, I've read your post carefully:

     http://laserboy.org/ilda_file_format.html

 I think I finally know what the deal is. It's real simple- all this talk about math and common sense is cute, but a little
niave. In math, 2 + 2 = 4, and the derivative of a quotient is Ho d Hi minus Hi d Ho over HoHo, and multiplication tables are
not up for debate. With math, we deal with concepts where a given set of circumstanses yield a certain consequence- the basis
of logic. At the machine level, computers work on a similar principle, a given condition has only two outcomes: true or false.

 The fact is that people don't speak machine language, there is a translational layer between man and machine, and it's called
a computer language. The point is, with any language (including one as rudimentary as assembler) be it a spoken one or computer
one, there is more than one way to skin a cat; and there's plenty of rope to hang yourself based on the choices YOU make- there
is NOTHING systematic about it. Garbage in equals garbage out. Computer programming is as much a creative and strategic venture
as it is a logic one. Have it your way- as they say at Burger King.

"Why do I care about all of this?

Because, LaserBoy is entirely based upon the ILDA file format! It is nothing less than a very complex, conglomerate C++ memory
object that _IS_ the ILDA file format made real and dynamic in memory. "

"The LaserBoy implementation is different from the ILDA proposed standard in that LaserBoy assumes that all section headers are
exactly the same data structure."

 You made a PERSONAL choice at time zero to use the ILDA file format as you understood it at the time to be your 'Master
Image Template', to include some 'assumed' unwritten mandate for a 32 byte section header for each frame, and you built a
house of cards on it and took the plunge hook, line, and sinker. Not everyone would do it that way, because language in
general allows you to accomplish a goal any one of many ways, and we're all different in the way that we approach a task.

 I guess a 16 bit section header would rock YOUR world (it would be like changing Newton's gravitational constant- the
galaxies would either fly apart or collapse in on themselves), but SHOW ME from the Sacred Text that a .ild file was, is,
and forevermore shall be bound to a 32 byte section header, reguardless of format code number in a proposed future format.
I guess a couple line code change wouldn't fix the problem in YOUR world, but that is the result of a methodology that YOU
chose to employ, no one told you to do it that way.

 As I look through the sacred text, all I see is that a .ild file frame has only this mandate: "ILDA" followed by 3 bytes
of binary zeros, and a 0-255 format code byte. As for anything after that, all bets are off for a yet to be defined format
code.

 Here's what I want to know: Back in 04 when ILDA changed the rules and proposed a 16 bit header for format 3, LaserBoy
was not open source, and you hadn't posted your rebuttal yet. Were you out there broadcasting the exact details of how
LaserBoy worked, before the proposal was changed, so that folks on the Committee new just exactly what to do just to screw
your specific app?


  To be continued...
« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 01:44:34 am by meandean »
"Patience is for the dead."

Offline James

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Re: ILDA is over
« Reply #48 on: July 06, 2010, 01:47:10 pm »
Oh for God's sake!

Look at this:




Yes! There are an infinate number of ways ILDA might have screwed this up but they chose only this one.

It's a lot like wiping your ass with your bare hand and then wiping your hand with toilet paper.

IT WORKS!

But it's not very popular.

Get a fucking clue, Dean.

The people of ILDA are not gods.

They are not any better at software engineering than I am; OBVIOUSLY.

The argument is OVER!

There is no more dispute about just how wrong the 16-byte header really is. It's wrong!

The only question after that is what responsibility ILDA has to this matter. The answer is NONE!

They are perfectly within the rights of a private club to do whatever they want!

The only question after that is how this coincides with their own written rules.

And how each and every one of them deals with the morality of this whole incredibly stupid issue;

and the hight of ranker and engagement of certain ILDA members in the pointless, online assassination of my character.

Yes! I am an asshole as Gary has pointed out countless times and I'm SURE that is why the original tech com did what they did and held their position. I'm also sure it's why ILDA will never acknowledge my work.

And, as far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing by now!  ;D

Because...... ILDA has technically voided themselves and forfeited their authority for keeping standards;

BY OFFICIAL EXECUTIVE DECISION.

James.   :)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 03:17:28 pm by James »
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Offline Fanny Pack

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Re: ILDA is over
« Reply #49 on: July 06, 2010, 04:55:38 pm »
Your picture is wrong because there is no Format 3.  No such thing.  It was an experiment and it never got off the ground.   Killed.  Kapoot.  You're arguing that some aborted baby might run for president.  Stupid argument.  So redraw your picture up there and erase your two Format 3 columns.  Then tell me how ILDA got it wrong?  Apparently they are not so stupid if they never adopted the standard that that you are claiming they messed up.  Maybe YOU are stupid for adopting a standard that never became a standard.  Maybe you are the dumbass who is voting for some aborted baby to become president.  There is no maybe about it.  It's fact.  If ILDA adopted the Format 3 standard that you are so much against you might have a case for an argument.  But it was never adopted.  They changed it to break your application and then killed the whole thing just so that you will have a mental breakdown.  It's working.  ILDA will be laughing at you over beers on the ILDA Cruise.  You'll be fuming in a basement.  Sucker.

Offline James

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Re: ILDA is over
« Reply #50 on: July 06, 2010, 06:08:05 pm »
With comments like that, I have no need to pass any judgement on you at all.

Gary, you're a fucking genius!

Since we're still on topic......

The fact that the last public domain document was left in its current state and the next revision of the spec was for members only, then they failed to achieve their own publicly stated objective of extending the public document to include unique RGB per vertex.

Formats 4 & 5 don't exists for the general public.

Therefore, the ONLY public domain document of how to do it right belongs to me!

ILDA NO LONGER OFFERS A PUBLIC DOCUMENT.

I do! ;D

James.  :)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 06:18:38 pm by James »
LaserBoy is Sofa King Cool!
But it will never be Alpha King Done!

Offline Fanny Pack

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Re: ILDA is over
« Reply #51 on: July 06, 2010, 06:56:32 pm »
You own Format 3?  You can have it.  I don't think anyone really wants to take that away from you if you call it your own.  Why don't you claim that rabbit poop in my front yard while you are at.  It's about as useful.
 
ILDA is a paid membership organization.  It doesn't exist for the general public.  The same goes for just about any industry group.  Every heard of SEMI or SAE?  They are very important groups and are responsible for a ton of standards in the semiconuctor automation and transportation industry.  You reap the benefits of these organizations everytime you turn on your computer or drive your car.  Yet, you can't just go online and download the standard for Carrier Management or for Onboard Diagnostics.  You can join, become a member of the technical committee and help steer things if you so desire, though.  But, if you call them up and say, "I'm James in Ohio and I like to play with auto parts in my basement and I need to tell you why your standard is wrong."  they will hang up on you and go back to doing business serving the people who pay for their organization to exist.
 
You clearly have no clue how of how it works in the world of standards.  Another example of you not being a real computer programmer and just some hack.  You might convince someone you know what you are talking about but the more I hear out of you the more I realize you really don't have a clue.

Offline Fanny Pack

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Re: ILDA is over
« Reply #52 on: July 06, 2010, 07:30:49 pm »
Alright, it wasn't fair of me to say you aren't a real computer programer just because you don't understand the deal with standards.  So I'll take that back.  A lot of programmers aren't exposed to how standards work. 

Offline BlinkenLights

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Re: ILDA is over
« Reply #53 on: July 06, 2010, 11:30:57 pm »
"ILDA is a paid membership organization.  It doesn't exist for the general public."
"You clearly have no clue how of how it works in the world of standards."
non sequitur ?

Offline meandean

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Re: ILDA is over
« Reply #54 on: July 06, 2010, 11:52:07 pm »
"ILDA is a paid membership organization.  It doesn't exist for the general public."
 
ILDA calls itself a 'trade organization'- no different than the Plumber's Guild...
"Patience is for the dead."

Offline meandean

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Re: ILDA is over
« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2010, 12:35:53 am »
 "Now, LaserBoy can plow through all kinds of garbage"

 Now, years later, I think you finally get it.

  It is my great pleasure to now introduce the elephant (or the 900lb gorilla, take your pick) in the room.
From early times, the standard says you MUST skip past an unknown ILDA section header in a frameset, and press
on until you find something you know how to read, or you reach the end of the file. The trouble is, there is
no convienient way to do that shy of fishing for the next ILDA 0 0 0 X, to skip past unrecognized format codes.
That's what the 16 bit header was proposed to do, to introduce the well-established concept of chunk sizes in
actual bytes rather than the number of data elements to make it easier for future additions of format codes without
busting current apps.

  Carefully read pg 2 of the following:

   http://www.laserist.org/StandardsDocs/IDTF05-finaldraft.pdf
 
  Re-read post 15 of this thread

  The whole point of having a format 3 in the first place was to introduce 24 bit color as a new section header
type that could be skipped past by previous apps.

  After having the experience of writing ILDA frames myself, I finally recognize the real wisdom of the following,
posted over a year ago:

http://laserboy.org/forum/index.php?topic=183.0;message=1798

  Brilliant!

  Now I understand why format 3 is dead- nobody (including LaserBoy, until now) read the directions in the first place!


                                                                   Best Regards,

                                                                                            Dean


 
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 01:02:00 am by meandean »
"Patience is for the dead."

Offline Fanny Pack

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Re: ILDA is over
« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2010, 06:55:53 am »
"ILDA is a paid membership organization.  It doesn't exist for the general public."
"You clearly have no clue how of how it works in the world of standards."
non sequitur ?

Do you think standards exist for the general public consumption?  They don't.  If you think "standard" implies "open source" you are wrong.  It costs a lot of money to create a standard.  My association is pretty clear if you understand what what goes on with standards and how they are usually made available.  Claiming no association is acknowledgement of the last sentence in what you quoted.

Offline Fanny Pack

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Re: ILDA is over
« Reply #57 on: July 07, 2010, 07:00:06 am »
"ILDA is a paid membership organization.  It doesn't exist for the general public."
 
ILDA calls itself a 'trade organization'- no different than the Plumber's Guild...

For the most part.  I'm not sure if the Plumber's Guild creates new technology (eg some sort of drain pipe with a universal fitting so that all members of the guild can remove it).  That area is a little more fuzzy. 

Offline Fanny Pack

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Re: ILDA is over
« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2010, 07:16:19 am »

ILDA NO LONGER OFFERS A PUBLIC DOCUMENT.


I wonder why.

Offline James

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Re: ILDA is over
« Reply #59 on: July 07, 2010, 12:21:24 pm »
So everyone agrees.

ILDA did what they did by choice and they have every right to do that because they are a private club.

Goodie!

Now let's get on with the free, open to the public business of laser display.

Any software developer that wants to get the most out of what is already out there would be looking for the most wide open and all encompassing view of that they might find in a file ending with .ild.

That would be the super-set of all of the sections, 0, 1, 2, 3, !3, 4 & 5, as pictured in this thread.

New developers might want to think about at least reading all of these.

It is also advisable to NOT expect anything from an .ild file to be optimized or ready for scanning in any way!

James.  :)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 12:30:30 pm by James »
LaserBoy is Sofa King Cool!
But it will never be Alpha King Done!

 

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