LaserBoy
Software => Joint Development => Topic started by: James on June 17, 2010, 02:10:19 am
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http://laserboy.org/formatt/ (http://laserboy.org/formatt/)
So what do YOU think?
James. :)
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You are the "JESUS CHRIST" of LASERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
:)
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So I've heard.
Bless you my son.
Some day I might let you touch the hem of my garment.
James. :)
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I've added a bit more at the end.....
http://laserboy.org/formatt/ (http://laserboy.org/formatt/)
Still working on it!
Stick with it. It actually gets funny toward the very end and it seems to have a happy ending.
James. :)
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It actually gets funny toward the very end and it seems to have a happy ending.
Let's hope it does...
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There!
I think that pretty much tells the whole story.
I might have a few word tweaks to do, so if you see any typos, let me know!
Enjoy!
http://laserboy.org/formatt/ (http://laserboy.org/formatt/)
Looking forward to seeing all the smiling faces at SELEM 2010! ;D
The real funny part is going to be finding out how much energy my PL detractors are willing to put into recognizing they all got shafted by ILDA and a bad situation.
I've already got some classic Buffo emails! :o
James. :)
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Jules Verne would be proud of you.
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Thanks Gary!
That means a lot to me! ;D
Whatever it means! %)
James. :)
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hey Hyena, glad your still with us... +1 Milliwatts for you...
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Would anyone care to make a post on the PL, so that none of those wonderful people miss out on the chance to read this?
Link to the start of this thread.
Any one of them is free to join this forum and make a comment right here; right now.
Thanks!
James. :)
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Wow. I read over your document. I remember hearing about this controversy a few years back. I can't believe it's still going on. Oh yeah, ILDA is involved. OK I can believe it.
ILDA is just a bad organization. I think the idea is of the organization is good, but the implementation is faulty at best. It has turned into a group of "good-ol-boys".
I usually don't comment on my feelings of this publicly because I'm afraid myself of being put out. (I work for an ILDA member company, but I'm not speaking for my company, only personally.). I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks there needs to be a new orgainization that has integrity and gets things done.
(Now I've said this stuff publicly, I wonder if I'll still get their emails.)
So, not everyone is on ILDA's side in this matter. There may be others who don't speak out for fear.
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WOW!
Welcome to The LaserBoy Forum, hastypete!
Thank you so much!
It REALLY means a lot to me to read a comment like this coming from someone I've never even heard of before!
It's not just ILDA that has a major problem. It's all of the fools who look up to them as any kind of authority. They believe their crap before they believe plainly observable common sense!
Now that it's all out there, no one is knocking down my door to apologize to me either.
You really made my day! ;D
Keep an eye on things going on here at The LaserBoy Forum. This is the center of new ideas and new developments in the laser display field. There are a number of very good programmers and electronics experts here.
You are very welcome to be here and speak your mind freely.
James. :)
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It took another LB forum member to point this out to me:
http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11567&highlight=james+lehman (http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11567&highlight=james+lehman)
Yea......... whatever!
Just read what I wrote.
Then ask yourself, what do you believe?
And just how big of a man does it take to post to a forum where everyone knows I can not respond?
Then ask yourself, why can I not respond?
It all comes down to one thing.
Do you think ILDA is more important than the correctness of math?
Is being in the club more important than being correct?
Stupid people are often afraid!
James. :)
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You posted a webpage posting your view of certain events. How are the people who you bashed supposed to respond to that? And then you have the nerve to imply that people posting on the forum that they always post on are copping out because you can't reply. No, you got banned for being an asshole. And your little webpage thing made you look like an ever bigger asshole. In short, you are an asshole. That is why no one in ILDA wants to listen to you. That is why you are banned from PL. That is why you are now banned from SELEM. Not because people are afraid of the truth. It's because you are an asshole and no one wants to listen to your retardness anymore. If you haven't noticed, I have been posting on PL lately. I was banned before. But, maybe, just maybe, since I am not going around attacking people and calling people names and acting like asshole they let me keep posting.
So, get your head out of your ass and stop being an asshole.
This has been a public service announcement for those tired of hearing your dumbass ILDA shit that no one gives a flying fuck about because it has been irrelevant for years.
Peace out.
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I'm not sure Gary,.......... But I think you think I'm an asshole.
Why?
Can you or anyone else come up with a logical reason?
Or is it just because I don't go along with the obvious stupid reaction?
You think you are a decent programmer, Gary. You are NOT.
You are out of the loop. You don't know math for shit.
There is a better way and you couldn't find it to save your life!
You never fail to disappoint me.
Good for you again!
Notice: YOU, Gary, The Asshole, have NOT been banned from this forum.
Have you nothing better to say?
I don't force myself into places where I am obviously not wanted.
Why am I not wanted?
Prove me wrong!
ANYONE !!! ? ???
PLEASE explain to me and everyone else how Bill was right all this time and I was wrong!
PLEASE EXPLAIN how I am mentally ill for seeing that format 3 does not require a unique section header!
PLEASE EXPLAIN the merits of the 16-byte section header and how it is so much better than the standard 32-byte section header that precedes every other section.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!
Otherwise.......... APOLOGIZE! And then Shut The FUCK UP. :-X 8)
James. :)
PS. Maybe you should ban yourself again.... I won't ban you for being an idiot, but I won't miss you if you just never post again.
Loser! >:(
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PLEASE EXPLAIN the merits of the 16-byte section header and how it is so much better than the standard 32-byte section header that precedes every other section.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!
It's real simple... Someone on the Committee thought that it was time for a clean break (that's what format codes are for); to
'get with the program' of other formats like WAVE that allow for easy skipping past unknown sections without having to fish blindly for
the next 'ILDA' because they define a package size in bytes... The fact that the section header is only 16 bytes makes sense because you don't need the extra fields for company name and frame name because it's just a freaking color list for each frame, and that info is already in the fmt 0 or 1 coordinate data.
For all we know, a format code 9 might contain the periodic table of the elements- skip past it.
As it is, LaserBoy blows up when presented a format code 6....
Maybe I'm just a dumbass hillbilly here, but I think a man should be smarter than the machine that he's sitting in front of.
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What a dick.
Format 9 is obviosuly out of the spec.
So what?
LaserBoy is actively developed!
Let me know when I need to identify a format 9!
The only reason format 3 exists is to supplement the existence of formats 0 or 1.
So why would it take a different section header?
And why would formats 4 & 5 take the same old section header?
It makes no sense other than to say because that's the way ILDA wanted to do it!
DUH!
James. :)
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Format 9 is obviosuly out of the spec.
So what?
Huh? format 9 isn't even defined yet, and you don't get that.
Format 2 is just a color table, vs a vector storage format- it was a NEW thing introduced later, using a NEW format code, under
the umbrella of the .ild extension.
The last proposal for format 3 looks workable to me, I'm not sure why ILDA dumped it.
And you still haven't explained why LB chokes on fmt 6...
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It makes no sense to judge an application by throwing crap at it.
If you expect LaserBoy to read garbage, then I guess it fails.
So what?
I'll make a special effort to create bogus files, just like you did, so that I can write code to get through it.
Just for you Dean!
You still offer no reason why a color table should have a different section header.
Just because is not good enough.
James. :)
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LOL. My only response to you is: You're an asshole.
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Thanks Gary for all of your technical expertise and the help you offer to others on this forum.
James. :)
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I'm not sure Gary,
Well let me confirm if for you.
.......... But I think you think I'm an asshole.
Why?
Can you or anyone else come up with a logical reason?
Just general concensus. You have no respect for others.
Or is it just because I don't go along with the obvious stupid reaction?
No, it is because you whine like a kid and insult people when you don't get your way. Notice how you use the word "stupid" in your reply? That sums it up. To you, everyone else is stupid. Only you have it right. You're an asshole.
You think you are a decent programmer, Gary. You are NOT.
You are out of the loop. You don't know math for shit.
I am not sure why you even said that. It is isn't relevant to anything having to do with your ILDA rant or this discussion. Next thing you will tell me I don't know anything about Karmann Ghias.
There is a better way and you couldn't find it to save your life!
Are you talking about me now or you and the LaserBoy user interface?
You never fail to disappoint me.
Well, yea, sorry, but I don't write DOS apps anymore. I have bills to pay.
Good for you again!
Absolutely, it means I am have not been influenced by your insanity.
Notice: YOU, Gary, The Asshole, have NOT been banned from this forum.
You can if you want. Really, you can. But then you would miss my wonderful drive-bys and you wouldn't get a chance to insult me. I know you love doing that since it makes you feel like a man... which is something that you don't know a lot about.
Have you nothing better to say?
Um, you're a dick?
I don't force myself into places where I am obviously not wanted.
You're right. I'm sure all of those calls to Patrick Murphy were by invitation. Or asking someone to post a link to your webpage on the PL forum was because everyone wanted to hear what was up with James. Or... well, you get the picture. But, you said "force yourself". I guess technically you didn't really force anything. But then again, neither have I. In fact, people requested that I post there.
Why am I not wanted?
Because talking to you is unpleasant. Something I realized exactly the first time you ever called me years ago. It was apparent without ever even mentioning my philosophy on anything that you were delusional in the way you think Microsoft and ILDA is evil. It was apparent that you had no idea of how to write a usable computer program when you told me I had to run LaserBoy on a Linux box on one computer while running the GUI on a completely different computer. WTF dude?!?! Who taught you about usability? Luckily I enlightened you with a fine Microsoft (free) Virtual PC program that allowed you to at least run that crap on a single PC. And then, after I had Spaghetti up and running on my own you had the nerve to call me again and ask me to collaborate with you and add it to LaserBoy so that it would be an awesome program. I was nice to you and when I declined but I was laughing my ass off the whole time thinking how stupid of an idea it was and annoyed at how arrogant you were to think I would pur something useful like Spaghetti into a glorified, hell, it isn't even glorified, DOS paint program.
Prove me wrong!
No, you prove yourself right. Prove to anyone why it has been worth your time and all the hype over what amounts to 16 bits that you could have worked around in about 15 seconds. Prove you still can't have the concept of palettes in the current ILDA 4/5 spec even though they are not themselves in the ILDA file. Prove why it makes any kind of sense to have a format such a 3 that writes out all of the points in one frame and then writes out all of the colors in another instead of combining them into a single structure (which is just common sense to any programmer that has actually been in the industry for some time). Prove it. You can't without begging the question. You're answer is "Because I am James and I like generic C++ wah wah wah and because I thought of it first blah blah blah". In other words, you are an asshole and refuse to compromise with what others think is right.
ANYONE !!! ? ???
You would never accept anything said as proof. Until someone invents a time machine and takes you back in time you will never accept what people say. So, it is not worth even trying. The only thing I can definitely prove is that you are an asshole.
PLEASE explain to me and everyone else how Bill was right all this time and I was wrong!
Who cares? The ONLY important thing is that Format 3 was NEVER adopted. And never will. Even if by some weird stretch of reality, you were deemed to be king of Format 3, no one would use it or want to use it. Because it sucks.
PLEASE EXPLAIN how I am mentally ill for seeing that format 3 does not require a unique section header!
I am not a psychiatrist so I can't diagnose you. But, if you visit one and explain things I am sure he might give you some medication. As for the section header. It was probably a mistake. But not one that couldn't be worked around. It takes 15 seconds to work around it in code. Is that worth alienating yourself and becoming the biggest asshole in laser history? You made the choice and you chose to be an asshole.
PLEASE EXPLAIN the merits of the 16-byte section header and how it is so much better than the standard 32-byte section header that precedes every other section.
No merits. Like I said, probably a mistake. Or maybe they just thought you were an asshole and wanted to spite you. If it was a mistake. You could have just worked around it and stopped being an asshole. If they did it because you were an asshole... well, that only proves my case that you are an asshole. So, did they do it on purpose? You claim they did? I think that proves my case if you agree with me.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!
Your wish has been granted.
Otherwise.......... APOLOGIZE! And then Shut The FUCK UP. :-X 8)
Well, I do apologize to everyone else for my ugly language. I usually don't like saying things like that. But, well, you're an asshole.
James. :)
PS. Maybe you should ban yourself again.... I won't ban you for being an idiot, but I won't miss you if you just never post again.
Yes, I know. It's like that movie... YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH! So, that's why you don't like me here.
Loser! >:(
That was very Napolean Dynamite of you. Nice parting touch.
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. %)
I must be a very important person to you for you to spend so much time writing all that crap.
It's equaly amazing that you would come on to my own forum to write it.
If you're so over and above all of this, why do you go so far out of your way to make such a point to someone who obviously will never see it your way?
Go back to the PL and stay there. You all deserve each other!
You don't bring anything good to this forum.
As for some of the other comments I read from the PL thread listed above, I'll clear up a bit of confusion. I normally don't directly quote personal emails, but this time I think I will. These are excerpts from whole emails.
James wrote:
I'd like to know how you can acknowledge the elements of the story that you know to be true; most notably the vandalized document itself, and explain this situation any other way. Why is it there? Why was it not fixed when I posted my rebuttal?
Adam wrote:
(omitted rambling....)
Embarrasment? Shame? Refusal to admit a mistake? Resentment that someone outside the organization was trying to tell them what to do? Any number of reasons, really. The point is that none of this proves malicious intent. A better question might be: instead of trying to get ILDA to change (which obviously wasn't working), why didn't you just add support for both formats to LaserBoy? Then the issue would have been settled 6 years ago.
James wrote:
Why didn't I just do format 3 the way ILDA posted it? Because they destroyed it. It has been removed from use. I show you absolute proof of my claim and your best counter argument is that I must be in need of mental health counseling. You have NEVER taken a sensible, accurate, technical stand in this argument. You can't! You have always attacked ME PERSONALLY.
"Embarrasment? Shame? Refusal to admit a mistake? Resentment that someone outside the organization was trying to tell them what to do? Any number of reasons, really."
That is the most reasonable thing you have ever written. Is that the position that an international trade association should take on this or any other matter that is as connected to the core of its own existence as this? Providing standards is what ILDA does. So you, as an unassuming ILDA member, are OK with this? Is this why you pledged to uphold the mission statement and the code of ethics? Good for you!
Adam wrote:
I told you James, I'm done with this. Further conversation serves no purpose other than to feed your ego, and I will no longer indulge you. Goodbye.
James wrote:
Embarrasment? Shame? Refusal to admit a mistake? These are all ego driven flaws! Sounds like you! Why don't you ask your family to read my story thus far and explain it to you. You are a coward.
It was during a phone conversation that he blurted out that I must think I'm "The Jesus Christ of Lasers!" Which I think is just plain hilarious!
So now, he finally understands that the use of the 16-byte garbage section header is clearly wrong AND he admits to a bad motive and total lack of respect for common sense engineering on the part of ILDA..... But I'm still an egomaniac! What a guy! I would say that this exchange qualifies as "Classic Buffo!"
Now he's talking about officially un-inviting me to SELEM. What a way to prove my point!
And you just gotta' love Bill's posting of a personal email I sent to him. GOOD GAWD! He posts that email to a public forum where he knows I will not be able to respond. Could he have made my point any clearer? Thanks Bill! Once again, YOU are my best advocate when it comes to bringing all of these issues into the light of day!
James. :)
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My only point is that you are an asshole. The rest is just jibber jabber. There is only one thing to take out of this entire thread and that is: You are an asshole.
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Also, I am pretty certain Buffo had absolutely nothing to do with anything related to format 3. So basing any conclusion based on your conversation with him is stupid. In fact, even mentioning it and putting him in a negative light for it only shows the same thing: You are an asshole.
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I have no respect for anyone who takes a stand against something that I know is true and can easily be proved. At some point, most people realize when they have made a mistake. But some people make a point of creating a super strong emotional commitment to a completely irrational idea.
The actual matter is done.
I have had it out with the top three executives of ILDA and it is officially what it is.
All of them recognize the 16-byte sections header is garbage.
That is what I've been saying for all these years.
The only disagreement now is what to do about it.
ILDA chose to continue to ignore me.
That doesn't make me wrong.
And not everyone in the world thinks I'm an asshole for it;
just a few people who can't see common sense over their own stupid egos.
James. :)
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Normally when I call someone crazy I don't really mean it. But in your case, I actually do think you have a mental illness. I knew a guy like you who eventually took an assault rifle and started shooting people because he thought everyone was out to get him. His name is Wendel Williamson. Look him up. Maybe visit him in the mental institution. You need help dude or you are going to hurt someone or yourself.
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You seem to be quite obsessed with hating me. Right now I must be the most important thing in your life.
That's just sad.
James. :)
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Not really. I am pretty much all into my '79 Cutlass Cruiser at the moment. I have been working on it a lot lately and the service manual is a PDF on my computer. So, as I chill out from being elbow deep in grime and checking torque specs from the manual I see what nonsense you have to say. If I am so inclined, or if I have some time to kill before the carb dip times out I'll post something. Right now, I am drinking some wine after a nice dinner and working on the Cruiser all day. Its running really awesome right now. I'll probably drive it to SELEM and might even just sleep in the back instead of getting a hotel. Depends on the weather. In short, no, you aren't the most important thing in my life. More like filler for when I have nothing else going on.
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Try masturbating. It's much more rewarding.
James. :)
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Pretty much anything is more rewarding.
Before I leave this, which I will after this reponse (at least for a long time), I want to demonstrate my psychic abilities with these predictions.
(1) You will never ever get anywhere with your ILDA format 3 conquest/rant.
(2) You will be an asshole the rest of your life.
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Good. Now you can go away.
James. :)
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Psyche! I am back. Or am I? Yes I am. I will post again in exacyly 93 minutes. Be sure to check back then for a very important insult that will blow your mind and reveal the entire truth that you have been waiting for. Wait for it! Wait for it!
Or, you could just ban me now... I dare you to do it. Double dog dare you. I don't think you will.
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While I enjoy a little drama here and there, this thread has turned into a thermonuclear exchange that results
in 'mutually assured destruction'. It's one thing to have a spirited debate over some minute technical issue, but
when it comes to taking cheap shots at people because they don't agree with you in classic gradeschool fashion,
you take the cake, Jimmy!
What can you possibly hope to accomplish with that methodology?
Dean
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Gary, there is no reason to ban you. You make yourself a fucking joke.
James. :)
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KUUUUUUUMBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAA YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA....... (GROUP HUG)
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Gary, there is no reason to ban you. You make yourself a fucking joke.
James. :)
You are absolutely right. I made this all a big joke. It was crude and immature to say the things that I said to you. But by and large it is the truth. When I say that the reason you will go nowhere with format 3 is because people don't like you I mean it. That's really all that it boils down to. You keep asking "why? why? why? why?" Simple answer. Because you are disliked. I certainly would never ever colaborate with you on anything no matter how good of an idea it is. From public conversation I know that it was a nightmare for DrLava to work with you on the correct amp boards. I know you pestered ElectroFreak over his tutorial because he wouldn't give you credit for whatever it was you wanted credit for and in the process got shooed off from LPF. It is a reoccuring theme that you cannot work with anyone without making them dislike you. Maybe you think it is cute and people should overlook the disgust of dealing with you because you are so smart. Well, you aren't really that smart. You haven't really done anything. You kind of had a good idea with the sound card DAC and LaserBoy but your execution was awful. You went down that dead-end wave file path and although it does have one practical application it doesn't fit in with anything else. The cost of DACs is dropping and will soon enough be cheaper than building a sound card DAC. At that point, everything you have done with sound cards will be irrelevant. You wave file will go down in history with the Ford Pinto. LaserBoy will still be a DOS app that no one likes to use. But, for some reason, I have a feeling that you will still be working on it. Making it so that someone can type in G lower case t 1 9 Shift X and make something turn pink. Or maybe enhancing it so that they can select a file that exists on a networked computer, any though it will probabaly have to be a linux computer running some weird client app or something obscure. My point is this: "You don't get it." You don't get that people don't like you and you don't get that what you are doing is not important. It could be important, but you don't get that you are going about it all the wrong way. And, in all of this, when people try to point it out, your response is always the same: "I am James. I do what is logically right. I am an awesome computer scientist and I have awesome math skills so it must be right. I know it is different but I want it so that people have to be super smart to use it. Keyboards are better than mice. etc." James, I know the truth. You have no clue how to add mouse support to LaserBoy and still make it work so you claim that it is better the way it is. You are stuck on the DOS/Linux looking thing because that is all you have ever learned. Your realm of computer science is so tiny. To you, it has to be C++ in a command line editor. That's what they teach in college because that is about as advanced as you need to be to just write and application and make it do something without having to learn anything about the complicated part of writing an application. Your mentality of computer programming is nothing more than what a senior takes out of programming 303. You do not know anything about being a software engineer. I say this because I am a software engineer and have been doing it for years and years. No one would ever hire you with your mentality. You could never make it as a professional software engineer. Not in todays world. Maybe 20 yrs ago. But what you view as acceptable or good doesn't fit into the modern world. Look at iPhones. That is a perfect case of an advanced user interface. That is what people expect. Do you think the iPhone would be where it is if it had a LaserBoy-ish interface on it? Or would Apple be a broke company right now? As you read this I know that you know that I am right. And I am sure your response would be some 4 letter work or something do with a penis. You should do better than that. And you should start by apologizing to all of the people you insulted in your webpage and you should take it down or at least just post some information and get rid of that "history of why people hate me" nonsense. Before you go any further you need to un-do the damage you have done and prove that you can make sense and demonstrate that you are a good programmer. Personally, I don't think you can do that. But, if you want to succeed, that is what you are going to have to do.
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I hope you finally get this out of your system, but I don't think you ever will.
Don't you have your own forum for Spaghetti users?
Why don't you go hang out there and wait for someone who actually wants to have a conversation with you.
James. :)
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Gee Jimmy!
I'm disappointed... I expected a much more robust rebuttal...
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Pointless.
There's no way I can or should defend myself against a position that is completely made up and has nothing to do with reality.
To be perfectly honest, I haven't really read most of the crap he wrote. I just skim over it. It's all the same nonsense, just a different day.
And don't call me Jimmy.
James. :)
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Pointless.
There's no way I can or should defend myself against a position that is completely made up and has nothing to do with reality.
Funny. I thought my comments were pretty much spot on. What has been extremely comical is that the bulk of your replies apply more to your own actions. Such as asking why someone would butt there head in where they aren't wanted... or stating why defend your position against completely made up stuff. That sounds exactly like you and your ILDA rants. I wonder if anyone else detects that irony. It's OK for YOU to be an ass, bother people, make up your own history, and then accuse everyone of conspiracy and not having a good answer when they don't reply but when someone else does it, (in my case I don't really think I have, though) you say it isn't worth responding, too or is pointless.
Maybe you are starting to come around. Now you just need to look in the mirror.
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If any of this had anything to do with you personally, then I might at least understand your relentless postings.
But the fact of the matter is the only thing this has to do with you is NOTHING.
And THAT is what pisses you off.
James. :)
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That isn't true. Even if it was, it wouldn't make what I have said any less true.
And THAT is what pisses you off.
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You don't piss me off Gary. And I don't hate you. You just disappoint me.
James. :)
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Go and reread posts #1, #9, #11, and #12. Especially #9.
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Go and reread posts #1, #9, #11, and #12. Especially #9.
Nevermind. I got the numbers wrong. I have a different suggestion but I'll drop it.
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Don't worry about it Gary. You can be sure I ALWAYS read what I write!
James. :)
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James, I've read your post carefully:
http://laserboy.org/ilda_file_format.html
I think I finally know what the deal is. It's real simple- all this talk about math and common sense is cute, but a little
niave. In math, 2 + 2 = 4, and the derivative of a quotient is Ho d Hi minus Hi d Ho over HoHo, and multiplication tables are
not up for debate. With math, we deal with concepts where a given set of circumstanses yield a certain consequence- the basis
of logic. At the machine level, computers work on a similar principle, a given condition has only two outcomes: true or false.
The fact is that people don't speak machine language, there is a translational layer between man and machine, and it's called
a computer language. The point is, with any language (including one as rudimentary as assembler) be it a spoken one or computer
one, there is more than one way to skin a cat; and there's plenty of rope to hang yourself based on the choices YOU make- there
is NOTHING systematic about it. Garbage in equals garbage out. Computer programming is as much a creative and strategic venture
as it is a logic one. Have it your way- as they say at Burger King.
"Why do I care about all of this?
Because, LaserBoy is entirely based upon the ILDA file format! It is nothing less than a very complex, conglomerate C++ memory
object that _IS_ the ILDA file format made real and dynamic in memory. "
"The LaserBoy implementation is different from the ILDA proposed standard in that LaserBoy assumes that all section headers are
exactly the same data structure."
You made a PERSONAL choice at time zero to use the ILDA file format as you understood it at the time to be your 'Master
Image Template', to include some 'assumed' unwritten mandate for a 32 byte section header for each frame, and you built a
house of cards on it and took the plunge hook, line, and sinker. Not everyone would do it that way, because language in
general allows you to accomplish a goal any one of many ways, and we're all different in the way that we approach a task.
I guess a 16 bit section header would rock YOUR world (it would be like changing Newton's gravitational constant- the
galaxies would either fly apart or collapse in on themselves), but SHOW ME from the Sacred Text that a .ild file was, is,
and forevermore shall be bound to a 32 byte section header, reguardless of format code number in a proposed future format.
I guess a couple line code change wouldn't fix the problem in YOUR world, but that is the result of a methodology that YOU
chose to employ, no one told you to do it that way.
As I look through the sacred text, all I see is that a .ild file frame has only this mandate: "ILDA" followed by 3 bytes
of binary zeros, and a 0-255 format code byte. As for anything after that, all bets are off for a yet to be defined format
code.
Here's what I want to know: Back in 04 when ILDA changed the rules and proposed a 16 bit header for format 3, LaserBoy
was not open source, and you hadn't posted your rebuttal yet. Were you out there broadcasting the exact details of how
LaserBoy worked, before the proposal was changed, so that folks on the Committee new just exactly what to do just to screw
your specific app?
To be continued...
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Oh for God's sake!
Look at this:
(http://laserboy.org/formatt/graphics/all_together.gif)
Yes! There are an infinate number of ways ILDA might have screwed this up but they chose only this one.
It's a lot like wiping your ass with your bare hand and then wiping your hand with toilet paper.
IT WORKS!
But it's not very popular.
Get a fucking clue, Dean.
The people of ILDA are not gods.
They are not any better at software engineering than I am; OBVIOUSLY.
The argument is OVER!
There is no more dispute about just how wrong the 16-byte header really is. It's wrong!
The only question after that is what responsibility ILDA has to this matter. The answer is NONE!
They are perfectly within the rights of a private club to do whatever they want!
The only question after that is how this coincides with their own written rules.
And how each and every one of them deals with the morality of this whole incredibly stupid issue;
and the hight of ranker and engagement of certain ILDA members in the pointless, online assassination of my character.
Yes! I am an asshole as Gary has pointed out countless times and I'm SURE that is why the original tech com did what they did and held their position. I'm also sure it's why ILDA will never acknowledge my work.
And, as far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing by now! ;D
Because...... ILDA has technically voided themselves and forfeited their authority for keeping standards;
BY OFFICIAL EXECUTIVE DECISION.
James. :)
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Your picture is wrong because there is no Format 3. No such thing. It was an experiment and it never got off the ground. Killed. Kapoot. You're arguing that some aborted baby might run for president. Stupid argument. So redraw your picture up there and erase your two Format 3 columns. Then tell me how ILDA got it wrong? Apparently they are not so stupid if they never adopted the standard that that you are claiming they messed up. Maybe YOU are stupid for adopting a standard that never became a standard. Maybe you are the dumbass who is voting for some aborted baby to become president. There is no maybe about it. It's fact. If ILDA adopted the Format 3 standard that you are so much against you might have a case for an argument. But it was never adopted. They changed it to break your application and then killed the whole thing just so that you will have a mental breakdown. It's working. ILDA will be laughing at you over beers on the ILDA Cruise. You'll be fuming in a basement. Sucker.
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With comments like that, I have no need to pass any judgement on you at all.
Gary, you're a fucking genius!
Since we're still on topic......
The fact that the last public domain document was left in its current state and the next revision of the spec was for members only, then they failed to achieve their own publicly stated objective of extending the public document to include unique RGB per vertex.
Formats 4 & 5 don't exists for the general public.
Therefore, the ONLY public domain document of how to do it right belongs to me!
ILDA NO LONGER OFFERS A PUBLIC DOCUMENT.
I do! ;D
James. :)
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You own Format 3? You can have it. I don't think anyone really wants to take that away from you if you call it your own. Why don't you claim that rabbit poop in my front yard while you are at. It's about as useful.
ILDA is a paid membership organization. It doesn't exist for the general public. The same goes for just about any industry group. Every heard of SEMI or SAE? They are very important groups and are responsible for a ton of standards in the semiconuctor automation and transportation industry. You reap the benefits of these organizations everytime you turn on your computer or drive your car. Yet, you can't just go online and download the standard for Carrier Management or for Onboard Diagnostics. You can join, become a member of the technical committee and help steer things if you so desire, though. But, if you call them up and say, "I'm James in Ohio and I like to play with auto parts in my basement and I need to tell you why your standard is wrong." they will hang up on you and go back to doing business serving the people who pay for their organization to exist.
You clearly have no clue how of how it works in the world of standards. Another example of you not being a real computer programmer and just some hack. You might convince someone you know what you are talking about but the more I hear out of you the more I realize you really don't have a clue.
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Alright, it wasn't fair of me to say you aren't a real computer programer just because you don't understand the deal with standards. So I'll take that back. A lot of programmers aren't exposed to how standards work.
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"ILDA is a paid membership organization. It doesn't exist for the general public."
"You clearly have no clue how of how it works in the world of standards."
non sequitur ?
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"ILDA is a paid membership organization. It doesn't exist for the general public."
ILDA calls itself a 'trade organization'- no different than the Plumber's Guild...
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"Now, LaserBoy can plow through all kinds of garbage"
Now, years later, I think you finally get it.
It is my great pleasure to now introduce the elephant (or the 900lb gorilla, take your pick) in the room.
From early times, the standard says you MUST skip past an unknown ILDA section header in a frameset, and press
on until you find something you know how to read, or you reach the end of the file. The trouble is, there is
no convienient way to do that shy of fishing for the next ILDA 0 0 0 X, to skip past unrecognized format codes.
That's what the 16 bit header was proposed to do, to introduce the well-established concept of chunk sizes in
actual bytes rather than the number of data elements to make it easier for future additions of format codes without
busting current apps.
Carefully read pg 2 of the following:
http://www.laserist.org/StandardsDocs/IDTF05-finaldraft.pdf
Re-read post 15 of this thread
The whole point of having a format 3 in the first place was to introduce 24 bit color as a new section header
type that could be skipped past by previous apps.
After having the experience of writing ILDA frames myself, I finally recognize the real wisdom of the following,
posted over a year ago:
http://laserboy.org/forum/index.php?topic=183.0;message=1798
Brilliant!
Now I understand why format 3 is dead- nobody (including LaserBoy, until now) read the directions in the first place!
Best Regards,
Dean
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"ILDA is a paid membership organization. It doesn't exist for the general public."
"You clearly have no clue how of how it works in the world of standards."
non sequitur ?
Do you think standards exist for the general public consumption? They don't. If you think "standard" implies "open source" you are wrong. It costs a lot of money to create a standard. My association is pretty clear if you understand what what goes on with standards and how they are usually made available. Claiming no association is acknowledgement of the last sentence in what you quoted.
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"ILDA is a paid membership organization. It doesn't exist for the general public."
ILDA calls itself a 'trade organization'- no different than the Plumber's Guild...
For the most part. I'm not sure if the Plumber's Guild creates new technology (eg some sort of drain pipe with a universal fitting so that all members of the guild can remove it). That area is a little more fuzzy.
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ILDA NO LONGER OFFERS A PUBLIC DOCUMENT.
I wonder why.
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So everyone agrees.
ILDA did what they did by choice and they have every right to do that because they are a private club.
Goodie!
Now let's get on with the free, open to the public business of laser display.
Any software developer that wants to get the most out of what is already out there would be looking for the most wide open and all encompassing view of that they might find in a file ending with .ild.
That would be the super-set of all of the sections, 0, 1, 2, 3, !3, 4 & 5, as pictured in this thread.
New developers might want to think about at least reading all of these.
It is also advisable to NOT expect anything from an .ild file to be optimized or ready for scanning in any way!
James. :)
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Let's see... Two flavors of fmt 3 coexsisting under the umbrella of the .ild extension: that sounds like "pollution" to me.
http://laserboy.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=qbs5fqhsbkcsbhi0c4amq1bgv4&topic=183.0;message=1794
It destroys the concept of having individual format codes in general.
Wait a minute, let me put my hacker hat on here, maybe there is a solution. I'll call it 'The Big Endian Pow-Wow Checksum'!
Here's how it works: when a format 3 byte is encountered, immediately grab two 32 bit integers after that- we'll call them
int1 and int2.
If int1 = int2 * 3 + 4, Then we know with about 99.99999% certainty it's the REAL thing, otherwise we should probably just
skip past the whole deal... Psyche! Just kidding.
Maybe there was a 'hidden adgenda' as to why ILDA decided to be redundant in specifying both the package size in bytes, as
well as the number of colors in the fmt 3 proposal (moo hoo ha ha ha ha)...
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It's not pollution if you just read it.
You still need to know exactly what every byte is designated for in order to make any sense out of either the 32 or the 16 byte header.
That's what documentation gives us.
The only thing we don't know is what we have never seen. That would be outside of all that which is defined.
Drlava employed exactly what you describe to read some stuff he found on an ftp share.
I pasted his code snippet into LB quite a while ago.
What I want to know is what application made the .ild format 3 example he found.
It was all in !3................. AND................. it used nothing more than the standard 63 color palette!
Who came up with that?
Somebody really missed the point!
James. :)
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we love assholes Gary.... you me james drlava.. all assholes in their own way... dean, lenny, chris.. well they are practicing the are and will soon be well on their way to becoming their own kind of assholes too
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I don't think standards committees love assholes. That was pretty much my entire point.
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Put it together Gary.
The com of 04 - 05 were assholes.
The current administration can see that just as clearly as any other normal person would.
But they can't do anything that would prove that to everyone else in the world.
Bill Benner is most definitely an asshole. He has gone WAY out of his way to put me down and get others to do so as well.
I pick him out of the rest because he has the position that he does and he should know better about how to act with that kind of responsibility.
So they do nothing but ignore the fact that they have a bunch of asshole doing asshole things that are way outside of their own rules. And life goes on as usual for all of them.
That's why getting any kind of recognition from any of them now is pointless and of no value to me.
I think Dean described it best in a phone conversation.
One word.....
PangILDAlin
James. :)
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Put it together Gary.
The com of 04 - 05 were assholes.
The current administration can see that just as clearly as any other normal person would.
But they can't do anything that would prove that to everyone else in the world.
Bill Benner is most definitely an asshole. He has gone WAY out of his way to put me down and get others to do so as well.
I pick him out of the rest because he has the position that he does and he should know better about how to act with that kind of responsibility.
So they do nothing but ignore the fact that they have a bunch of asshole doing asshole things that are way outside of their own rules. And life goes on as usual for all of them.
That's why getting any kind of recognition from any of them now is pointless and of no value to me.
I think Dean described it best in a phone conversation.
One word.....
PangILDAlin
James. :)
So it is all Bill Benaras fault now? I will be sure to thank him at SELEM.
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Fuck you Gary.
You're not so dumb you can't see the common sense of this whole incredible waste of time.
Nothing about this it Bill's fault. He just took full advantage of the situation.
You haven't had too many decent things to say about it either.
If you sum up the last 6+ years into a 5 minute story, it's just plain pathetically stupid and it caused a hell of a lot of bad behavior among several people.
And after all this time, format 3 with a 32-byte section header is STILL the best technical solution and LaserBoy STILL reads and writes it perfectly.
What's the point of quoting the whole thing? Are you thinking I might edit or delete my previous post? I own this forum you know. I can edit and delete YOU. But I don't.
James. :)
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A circle is the best shape for a toilet drain because it is the shape of the crap that flushes down it. But, no one wants to use a toilet as an ILDA format because that would be stupid. Same goes for Format 3. It was a retarded attempt at being clever at the sake of common sense and good programming practices. I would like to meet the dilweed who ever thought it up. Congratulations for figuring out the correct shape for that turd. But, you look a little stupid with a toilet hanging off the side of LaserBoy. Actually, I have never encountered the toilet in LaserBoy. I never got past the front porch due to that blender for a door knob. Enjoy having the best header solution for the worst ILDA format that no one uses.
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I like how you keep refering to this forum as yours and claiming ownership. I'm not denying it. But, I know you understand the history of how this forum started and why. This forum exists in large part because of me. So suck it.
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I like how you keep refering to this forum as yours and claiming ownership. I'm not denying it. But, I know you understand the history of how this forum started and why. This forum exists in large part because of me. So suck it.
That's the funniest thing I've ever read of yours!
How in the hell do you figure that?
BTW, you're the only person I know who claims to be a software engineer who doesn't see the superior nature of 0, 1, 2 & 3 over 4 & 5. The only good anyone can say about 4 & 5 is that they are easier to implement in code; NOT BETTER; DUMBER!
The exact same thing can be said of C# compared to C++.
James. :)
PS. Don't tell a gay man to suck it. It probably doesn't mean what you intend.
No thanks! >:(
OMG! I thought it might look egotistical of me to have my own forum. I never imaged taking credit for the existence of someone else's!
That's priceless! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Now you are being stupid and argumentative. Part of being a good software is analyzing and choosing paths that offer the most value at least cost and long term maintenance. Formats 4/5 do everything I need in my application at a smaller cost than Formats 0,1,2,3. It's faster to process Format 4/5. Less code is needed. I don't need whatever it is you think is so important about Format 3. I have no problem supporting 0,1,2 for legacy reasons but Format 3 is just stupid. Why would I add support for a Format that offers no value and comes at a higher cost. You call yourself a software engineer? I call you a hack.
C# vs C++? Same argument. It does what I need and I can get things done faster with it. On the other hand. You chose to use multiplatform C++ and are largely crippled by it. If you had to sell LaserBoy to make a living you would be eating dirt. Again, I ask, you call yourself a software engineer? I'd like to see your resume.
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As for this forum, I don't want to claim any part of what it now. You can go ahead and delete the Hinged Newt section for all I care. In fact, I would prefer it if you did and I am asking you to do so. But, that Hinged Newt section is there for a reason and has been there from the start of this forum. I didn't ask anyone to put it there. I was called and asked if I would be a part of this forum IF it was put there and was told I would have complete control over it. But, I gave that up awhile back when I walked away from your retardedness just like I am about to do now. You can claim whatever you want about this, format 3, correction amp, etc... you seem to make up your own history about a lot of things. Why would anyone believe you about anything? You're just a liar and a hack.
--------------------------------------------------
"James Lehman - A liar and a hack"
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You're a very angry person, Gary.
That blinds you from things that are plainly obvious to other people.
Calling me a liar and a hack is about as far from reality as you can get.
I'm anything but a hack. I NEVER choose the easy, sloppy way to do anything.
I'm a perfectionist and I am meticulous to a fault. That's why I can see the value of things like format 3. It's in the details. You'd never see it if you've never worked with it.
If you always choose the easy rout, you'll never understand the value of anything technical. The whole point is to explore the entire range of possibility as far as your mind will allow you to go.
LaserBoy isn't what it is because I don't know any better.
LaserBoy has been developed from an environment that you are simply unfamiliar with. I had a set of working principles and I stuck with them and worked within that environment to maximize the utility of the whole application. I could have gone with FLTK or Qt or whatever to get platform independent windows.
Instead I had to invent all kinds of ways to connect the keyboard to the vector art. It might be difficult to learn, but once you get it, you can fly through LaserBoy without even thinking about the actions on the keys.
But you would never know that. You take the easy way and then you claim that anything that is beyond your ability to understand is no good.
Let's face it Gary. You just don't like me and you never will. That keeps you completely blocked from ever even giving LaserBoy a fair chance.
So think whatever you want.
Keep taking the easy way and keep hating people who know THE BETTER WAY.
As long as you ignore other people with good ideas, then your project will always be the best in your own mind.
Oh and BTW, Your welcome.
James. :)
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By hack, I simply meant you are a poser as far as being a software engineer goes. You might be a fantastic C++ programmer but you don't seem to know how to apply.
The hard route is not always the best route. For example, I am aware and acknowledge that you did a lot of work to get the LaserBoy interface to work. But, everything that you did already exists and in packages that are easier and more powerful for the developer with a much nicer result for the end user. You spent years working on something that could have taken a week or so? I'm guessing on times but the point is made. I couldn't have created Spaghetti if I hard to start at the machine code level and work my way up. But why would I want to? That's just more code to maintain and more potential bugs. By choosing a stable development platform I was able to get right into making a laser show application and not worry about having to make the building blocks for a basic application. It was difficult enough to create the timeline, directx ilda viewer, DAC drivers, interactive effects, show players, graphical element choosers, etc. Why would I want to complicate the task by having to create my own menu system or display system? If I did, I would have no time and the application would probably look similar to a DOS app. You don't think I have the skills to do it from scratch? I know how to program in machine code. I know how to program in assembler. I know how to program in C in embedded devices. I know how to program in standard C. I know C++. I know Visual C++. I know the various Windows toolkits such as Win32, MFC, COM, etc. I know BASIC. I know Visual Basic. I know Pascal. I know Borland Delphi. I know Java. I know the .NET languages, VB.NET, and C#. I used to be an electronics technician and nuclear reactor operator and instrumentation and control tecnician. I have restored cars and did the whole range from mechnical to paint and body. I have done wood working. I have a metal shop with lathe and mill. I am a DIYer. I have put down tile. Replaced siding. Hardwood floors. Paint. Me not technical? Dude, I shit technical for breakfast.
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Well, this discussion was stupid many posts back and it is especially stupid now. I am not sure how I managed to get myself in this rathole. Go on doing what you are doing. Good luck with it. I would really like to see you do something nice with LaserBoy because it could serve a purpose.
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LaserBoy does things that no other laser application has ever done.
The whole point of it is that it is totally original; not based on any other app or methodology and it is as much self contained and whole as possible.
It is open source, so I pride myself in solving all of it in my own code, that YOU can see!
It is a piece of art from its function to its form. Have you ever bothered to look at any of the code in a code editor?
It's also a gift.
If you don't like it the way it is, too bad!
You can't even see it well enough to know that it is most definitely NOT a DOS app. That shows me right there that you haven't given it a good ten seconds of consideration.
It is a high resolution graphics application that requires direct access to all or a portion of the video display. Everything you see inside that window is put there pixel-by-pixel from my own code. It just so happens that I use an 8x8 bitmap font that looks like a terminal font; also entirely in my own code. It is a terminal font! So what? You can read it and you can render it in different sizes to suit your display.
It is possible to run LaserBoy at The Linux Console, because from there you have everything; including the ability to take complete control of the video card and render directly into the display RAM.
You can also run it in Xfree86 and it looks and behaves exactly the same as it does anywhere else.
I think you are missing the biggest point of the whole thing. I had NO framework to start with. I wrote the whole thing, including ALL of the user interface. I did not just put together a bunch of preexisting objects that already worked in a ready-made application framework. And I did not rely on OpenGL or any other graphics rendering engines. It's all right there in that free code.
You probably haven't even looked at it long enough to figure out how to run it at any screen size. It isn't stuck at 640x480. That's just the default.
James. :)
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It's colorful.
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yep.
James. :)
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"...it is most definitely NOT a DOS app."
Of course it's not. A DOS app allows you to retrieve a file from anywhere on your system, and if you're lucky, it may include mouse support to make the task easier. (yuk yuk yuk) It's not exactly a Windows app either, because you can't change the window size without shutting the app down and restarting.
Help me out here, I need a GOOD practical example of what makes fmt 3 so superior to 4 & 5 (other than the DISTANT possibility that it MIGHT be backwardly compatible with some old fmt 2 era app), and the notion that it's otherwise just a bunch of extra garbage to deal with.
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Because format 3 is the logical last part needed to complete the set of 0, 1, 2 & 3. With ONLY these sections it is possible to have 2D or 3D frames (0 & 1) with no color and only blanking, or colors from an assumed palette of 63 colors or colors from defined palettes of up to 256 colors (2) AND (not or) color from tables of unique RGB values (3).
THAT'S IT. PROBLEM SOLVED.
This is a classic example of a closed set solution. There you have everything you need to define all of the relationships that consecutive frames of consecutive colored vertices can give you!
It's pure, clean math. It's all DONE.
It all works together.
NOT APART.
Think of it like a file system. It might not look like the most intuitive way to do it, but it makes the most sense.
Frames of vertices (0 & 1) have NO COLOR. They can exists and make sense totally apart from any color definitions.
Color is an enhancement to the concept of the frame; like an adjective to a noun.
Format 3 is just the unique RGB per vertex adjective that did not exists in previous documentation.
The concept of the frame (0 & 1) remains unchanged.
That's why format 3 is a genuine EXTENSION to the previous file format.
It's not a REPLACEMENT.
James. :)
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"It's pure, clean math. It's all DONE."
I still think it's a bunch of extra garbage with no payoff...
You still have not answered my request- I need a GOOD practical example of what makes fmt 3 so superior to 4 & 5.
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You're not going to get one Dean.
It's in the form, not the practice.
It's the same reason I speak English and not Swahili.
There isn't one tiny speck of "extra garbage".
You have just convinced yourself that 4 & 5 are easier.
That's totally garbage!
James. :)
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I get it now. It's like saying that the TRS-80 Model I system was better than the TRS-80 Model III system because you could add an expansion interface and some external floppys to make it a complete system instead of just replacing it. I always did like my TRS-80 Model I system better than those new Model IIIs. I had a lot of problems with the edge connectors for the cable between the keyboard and expansion interface but it was nothing that a pencil eraser every week or so wouldn't fix.
Why go with new technology when you can just keep on adding stuff to what you have? Did anyone see Star Trek I where Voyager came back as VGER and had a big bunch of junk added to it and it was going to destroy everything? That was cool. More junk = cool.
I get Format 3 now.
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Format 3 is better than Format 4/5 because with Format 3 you get to write out the header then a big array of coordinates. Then you get to write out the header and the write out a bunch of colors. That's cool because you get to do two loops instead of just one. Computer programming is all about loops, so the more loops you can do, the better. Also, it since the colors and coordinates are in seperate sections, there is that chance that the number of colors and number of coordinates might not match up or that there is a missing color section. That makes it a lot more cool because there is more chance that a programmer that is not very good or someone who doesn't quite understand the format might mess up. Then all the good programmers can laugh at him. It's always cool to be a good programmer and laugh at people that don't get it. If it was easy, everyone would do it, and then it wouldn't be cool anymore. Kind of like tattoos. Also, 3 is the next number after 2. It's always cool to use the next number in a sequence instead of skipping one. Going from 2 to 4 just isn't cool. You could argue that in binary, 0 == 00 and 4 = 100 ans 1 = 01 and 5 == 101 and that last bits are the same. But, that isn't as cool as going from 2 to 3. Format 3 is also better because everyone likes it and has decided to add it to their applications. 10,000 programmers can't be wrong. Format 3 is IT! I could probably go on all day about how good and cool Forma 3 is but I need to go somewhere now.
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Yawn..........
No you don't get it now....... or ever.
0, 1, 2 & 3 make a complete set.
4 & 5 replace that completely.
4 & 5 are NOT a logical part of 0, 1, 2 & 3.
4 & 5 have no reason to follow the form of 0, 1, 2 & 3 in any way.
And yet.... they are stuck with the same limitations of the 32-byte section header.
You STILL can not reliably skip over them because they don't tell you their actual size; only their element count.
4 & 5 could have fixed that problem and moved on WITH A NEW FILE EXTENSION;
like .il2 or something.
THAT WAS STUPID!
You just ca't see it because you refuse to do so.
James. :)
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If fmt 4&5 are so stupid, why do you support them in LB?
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No you don't get it now....... or ever.
I don't get your way of thinking. That is correct.
0, 1, 2 & 3 make a complete set.
0 is 3 coordinate indexed color.
1 is 2 coordinate indexed color.
2 provides an override of the default colors for 0 & 1.
3 provides the coordinates and the colors.
To me, it seems to me that 0, 1, & 2 are a complete set and Format 3 just replaces them.
4 & 5 replace that completely.
No more than Format 3 does. But since when is that a problem? Format 3, 4, 5 all do the same thing. Formats 4 & 5 just do it in a more straightforward and easier to implement way.
4 & 5 are NOT a logical part of 0, 1, 2 & 3.
0,1,2, & 3 are ways of representing colored points.
4 & 5 are ways of representing colored points. 4 & 5 are almost the exact same structure as 0 & 1.
I say that Format 4 & 5 is very much a logical part of it all.
4 & 5 have no reason to follow the form of 0, 1, 2 & 3 in any way.
Really? Because of how Format 4 & 5 were structured I was able to add support for them with only a few lines of code. That's all it took to add full color support. On the other hand, to add support for 3 I had to jump through some hoops and add some error checking that isn't required for 0,1,2,4,5. The form of 4 & 5 make complete sense in terms of retrofitting a program that already supports 0, 1, 2.
And yet.... they are stuck with the same limitations of the 32-byte section header.
To be backwards compatible. And it worked. I have proven that by implementation.
You STILL can not reliably skip over them because they don't tell you their actual size; only their element count.
Most Format 4 or 5 files will only have format 4 or 5 in them. So, there is no reason to skip them. If a header with a format 4 or 5 code is detected and if it isn't a recognized code then the file should just be closed. If the application was made to skip formats it didn't recognize (which most weren't), it will simply parse all the way to the end looking for other format headers. It isn't perfect but it is no less perfect than any of the others. The only real problem that exists is when someone implements a format differently than the spec like you did. In your case, even when the format code IS detected and recognized, you still can't read it. That's pretty stupid.
4 & 5 could have fixed that problem and moved on WITH A NEW FILE EXTENSION;
like .il2 or something.
No reason for that. The header file tells what it is and how to handle it. The ILD extension tells the application that some variant of an ILDA file is enclosed. The header tells exactly what it is. A different extension would not solve anything because the application would still have to open it to see what is in the file. What difference does it make if the decision tree starts with a file extension or a format code? Not much. Good applications only use file extensions for quick and dirty filtering but allow the application to attempt to open any file with an extension. The contents of the file tell what the file is. In your case, you have the imposter Format 3 format so it makes sense to use a different file extension. Otherwise, there is no way for the application or user to know it isn't what it appears to be until an error condition occurs.
If you follow the spirit of the ILDA format, everything makes sense. If you want to put your own spin on it then maybe it doesn't. If you follow the spirit of the human race as a species, opposite sex mating makes sense. If you want to put your own spin on it, maybe it doesn't.
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Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! EVERYONE ! ! ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! THIS IS A STUPID CONVERSATION ! ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! IM TIRED OF READING IT ! ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up !
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No shit.
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Too funny. The reason James left and was subsequently kicked off of PL was because he was told to shut up about ILDA/Format 3. He got all mad and left because he refused to be a part of a place where he couldn't express himself freely. Now, on the LaserBoy forum, we're told to shut up about ILDA/Format 3. Do you realize how awesome that is? My work here is done. Ta!
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Good God, Gary.
I think everything has been said now 100 times over.
I guess I should read your drivel a bit more carefully.
No wunder you don't like it. YOU DON'T GET IT!
3 provides the coordinates and the colors.
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
Format 3 is JUST COLORS! It looks exactly the same as Format 2 except it should always have more than 256 RGB elements. (Otherwise, it is a Format 2! )
This gets followed by a Format 0 or 1. That is where the coordinates are found; exactly where they have always been!
NOW do you see how 3 completes the set?
How did you ever write code to read it, if you didn't get that?
James. :)
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Gary, I honestly don't mind at all that you think I'm an asshole.
Lots of people do!
I don't accept or understand why you call me a liar.
James. :)
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And the saga continues... ;)
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Gary, I honestly don't mind at all that you think I'm an asshole.
Lots of people do!
I don't accept or understand why you call me a liar.
James. :)
Alright then. I apologize for that remark.
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Acknowledged and accepted.
James. :)
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It got awful quite in here.
So quiet you could hear a fish fart!
James. :)
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It got awful quite in here.
Yeah, that's probably because some party pooper ranted and reigned funk on our little parade. >:( >:( >:(
Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! EVERYONE ! ! ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! THIS IS A STUPID CONVERSATION ! ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! IM TIRED OF READING IT ! ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up ! Shut up !
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Bring on DA' FUNK!!! O0
I think I might have rung a bell. :o
Finally. %) :P
I hope. :-\
James. :)
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Uh..... Gary!
For all that noise you made and all the "assholes" you threw at me, I think YOU have some explaining to do!
So what is your story now?
Did you finally get it?
Are you ashamed to admit that you have to agree with me?
I'm sure you can find SOMETHING to argue about and some reason to maintain your position that I'm an asshole.
Let's see it!
Now is not the time to shut up.
James. :)
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I was on vacation in Florida. I am not even sure what you are talking about anymore. But, I don't remember being enlightened or agreeing with you on anything.
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Rewind....
You plainly indicated that you had the WRONG idea how format 3 works.
I explained it.
Post #90.
Then you dropped out.
If you own up to your misunderstanding and finally come to the realization that despite all the drama and bullshit, I have been telling the truth and providing an accurate view of the technology from the very beginning, then you would be a much better man and many of the other people on the PL.
You'd be the first one; apart from everyone else who already got it from the start.
James. :)
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Uhhhh. OK. I just got back from vacation and I don't care about this anymore. Your assumptions are not correct. I am done with this/you.
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No surprise there!
YOU are a lost cause!
James. :)
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Or maybe arguing with you over an ILDA format that doesn't and never will exist is just stupid. Get that.
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You're right about one thing. Arguing more after you have already obviously admitted to an ignorant and incorrect understanding of how it actually works is just stupid.
I get that.
You've already gone WAAAAAY over the line presenting an opposing point of view. Saying you're not interested in arguing about it now is a bit late. You were wrong. Grow up.
Or if you prefer to be gutless, do it on someone else's forum.
Wussy!
James. :)
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All I can say to you is two words:
Fanny pack
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That's a great way to end this thread!
Make a fun of the fact that I can not wear a wallet because I have a pair of very painful hip replacements; with a touch of implied "he's gay!".
Yes, Gary. I am gay!
And I'm also very intelligent...... and I'm right...... and I'm an asshole about it!
James. :)
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Actually, I didn't realize you were gay. I just thought you had no fashion sense.
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That too.
James. :)
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PS if you still dont think I understand format 3, go ahead and find the oldest (or newest) copy of Spaghetti you can. Then find a real Format 3 files, not one of your weird ones, and watch Spaghetti open it. If I didn't understand it, I wouldn't have been able to implement it. The proof is has been in code for years.
PSS Fanny Pack
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PS if you still dont think I understand format 3, go ahead and find the oldest (or newest) copy of Spaghetti you can. Then find a real Format 3 files, not one of your weird ones, and watch Spaghetti open it. If I didn't understand it, I wouldn't have been able to implement it. The proof is has been in code for years.
PSS Fanny Pack
i thought there was no format 3.... im confused.. seriously.. i thought that the implementation was NEVER agreed on, so there is no actual format 3...
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"i thought there was no format 3.... im confused.. seriously.. i thought that the implementation was NEVER agreed on, so there is no actual format 3..."
There isn't: but the fact that an ild 3 proposal was out there for awhile may have lead some to produce material using the 'proposed 3' format, so
their may be some legacy issues.
Format 3 is a lost cause, it assumed that older software could skip past unknown format sections and new crap could be added without breaking
older apps, as they would skip past and read what they can as the standard has long called for, but nobody read the directions (what a joke
even now, as LB and SPG see an unrecognized format code they both stop in their tracks and look no further).
Once the folks at ILDA realized the bubble gum and bailing wire they proposed to hold the whole mess together wasn't worth the trouble, together
with plenty of negative feedback from so many in the industry, they came up with fmt 4 & 5 as a simple solution to the age old problem of establishing
a discrete RGB color for each coordinate point.
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Just forget it.
This is just so fucking dead stupid.
Dean and Gary won't ever get it because they don't want to!
They and some others have made up their minds a long time ago to NEVER see it for what it is.
Easier is always better for some people.
Thinking is out of style.
Take a look at where Gary has gone with this whole conversation!
What a turd! >:(
If you get it Gary, why did you explain it SO WRONG?
And screw you, Blinken for bitching at me about perpetuating the bullshit.
Negative feedback from people in the industry? !!!
PLEASE! There are like five or six people in the whole world who even have half of an inkling to care about this nonsense.
And I'm sure they are all over it by now.
James. :)
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How did I explain it? I said Format 3 has the points and the colors. I also said it takes two frames. One with colors and the other with points. That's ALL I said about it. It's been probably 2 yrs since I implemented it so I was slightly off. But, the colors in Format 3 DO HAVE TO MATCH, IN ORDER AND IN QUANTITY, the coordinates of the 0/1 Frame. The Format 3 frame does not contain coordinates, but "Format 3" as an entity does. Because it requires Format 0/1 to complete it. If you mean that is a complete set, then I guess it is. But it is a completely stupid set. What is the point of creating something stupid that is difficult to use. If it weren't so retarded I probably wouldn't have mistakenly spoke about it. That's what it is all about. That's why it was dropped. Only you in your rigidness think it is a good idea. If anyone else felt the same way, they would be doing it, too. It's just you. You're the only one stupid enough to me jacking around with Format 3. You are the only one stupid enough to write an application that uses 1980s text fonts and only accepts keyboard input. Dude, you can't even get auto-complete to work. You're such a fool. You're the emperor with no clothes.
Look, lets face it; you wear a fanny pack. How can anyone take you seriously? It's just wrong. You're wrong. Intelligent people don't do that. Gay people are known for good fashion sense. I don't even think you are gay. I think you are just pretending to be just like you are pretending to be a software engineer. You're nothing.
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"...plenty of negative feedback from so many in the industry..."
OK, I was speculating there. How's this:
I SUSPECT that the fmt3 proposal did not get rave reviews from developers. The fact that the proposal expired, and was
later discarded in favor of a simpler way of getting the job done speaks volumes.
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I think I have made my point to any even minded, person who is willing to read my original article:
http://laserboy.org/formatt/ (http://laserboy.org/formatt/)
I have further illuminated it with more details within the nonsense of this thread.
Any further discussion about it is a complete waste of time.
Gary has obviously taken this as another opportunity to be as annoying as possible to try to get banned or attract more abuse of some sort. There is absolutely no value in anything he has written thus far.
Dean, if you don't understand the value of creating patterns and following them in computer science, then I don't wonder why you are still stuck in BASIC.
In real computer science engineering, we use data structures. We don't look at the world one byte at a time.
I said it before and I'll say it again..... little colored squares don't lie!
VANDALIZED FORMAT 3 is what failed.
REAL FORMAT 3 was never considered.
When VANDALIZED FORMAT 3 fell out of favor and ILDA took the document away from the public, there was NO WAY to do unique RGB per vertex. That set the entire laser programming community back YEARS!
entire laser programming community == about 6 people!
It also denied the entire laserist community any source of new material that contained unique RGB per vertex in a generic format.
Formats 4 & 5 had to be leaked to the general public.
Gary points out that they used the uniform 32-byte section header to make it easier to implement in code.
No Gary. That is not a good reason to use it for formats 4 & 5.
That is THE REASON to use it for format 3!
Formats 4 & 5 have NOTHING to do with 0, 1, 2 & 3.
But they now suffer the same deficiency of not knowing how big they are without knowing the size of each element.
END OF DISCUSSION.
James. :)
PS. YOU'RE STUPID! ;D