LaserBoy
Hardware => DACs => Topic started by: James on January 25, 2009, 01:40:47 am
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The USB 8 channel card is a +3.3VDC device, so it needs less of a negative voltage offset and more gain.
The 6 channel USB board is +5VDC so it needs a bit more negative voltage offset but less gain.
This version can be set to compensate for just about any sound card.
It also has excellent adjustment accuracy!
AND it features a nice solid, integrated 25 pin laser projector connector!
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_001.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_002.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_003.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_004.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_005.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_006.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_007.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_008.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_009.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_001a.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_002a.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_003a.jpg)
James. :)
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nice looks good
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oooooo perty
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lets see some action shots!!
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(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_003a.jpg)
FUN! ;D Operator, connect me to ILDA! ;D
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HA! :D :D :D
That's hilarious!
I use solid conductor telephone wire!
Love the pretty colors!
James. :)
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HOLY CRAP! :o :o :o
ANOTHER ONE !!! ;D ;D ;D
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_001b.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_002b.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_003b.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_004b.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_005b.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_006b.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_007b.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_008b.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8ors_001.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8ors_002.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8ors_003.jpg)
James. :)
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Looks good. I have that same multimeter. What's the big star for?
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Looks good. I have that same multimeter. What's the big star for?
The big star is glow-in-the-dark!
It's so I can see where I'm supposed to be when the lights are out! ::)
I like to play with it and my BluRay laser. ;D
I found it on the road one day when I was going for a walk. It must have been my lucky day! ;)
Ha! I just fixed that one crummy channel 7 on the second board I made. That's the second bad trim pot I've had to find and replace! I guess I should test them before I put all this stuff together!
James. :)
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This is the progress on #4 so far...
I'm really running out of parts!
Dig the IC sockets man!
I had to pull pins out of other sockets and arrange them into 8 pin dips!
All of the parts are in place. Now I have to wire it! ::)
At this point I can make this layout without even looking at the drawings!
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_001c.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_002c.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_003c.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_004c.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_005c.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_006c.jpg)
James. :)
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I just ordered 2 more of those 8 channel USB sound cards.
HERE:
http://usbgear.com/computer_cable_details.cfm?sku=USBG-SOUND-71&cats=121&catid=121,637,136
I also figured out how I'm going to make a nice box for the sound card and the correction amp. ;D
It's just too freaking cold to work in the garage! :P :-[
James. :)
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Wooooooo Hooooooo !!!
There's yet another one!
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_007c.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_008c.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_009c.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_010c.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_011c.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_012c.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8ors_004.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8ors_005.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8ors_006.jpg)
James. :)
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Putting it in a box!
This is Lexan (polycarbonate). I cut it on my table saw today! ;D
Tough stuff! :o
I still have a lot of work to do, but I'm pretty sure this is the material I'm going to use.
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_box_001.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_box_002.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_box_003.jpg)
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/annihil8or/annihil8or_box_004.jpg)
James. :)
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ok im volunteering as a beta tester...
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Well, I tried Super Glue and it didn't work. Then I looked it up on the Internet and I found that I need a very special kind of glue for polycarbonate!
Pat Catan's doesn't have it, so I guess I'll have to mail order some.
I have the box figured out and it's going to be really cool!
James. :)
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I have one of the printed circuit board correction amp, does anyone know what changes I need to make so it would work with the 8 channel board made by USB Gear?
Gary
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James...
answer this please..
:)
it is possible with a change in the pots i think..
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I just paid $36 for some freakin' glue!
What a rip!
It's like $6.73 for a 5oz. tube. OK. No biggie.
So I ordered 3 tubes because they have a minimum shipping charge of like $9.
They charged me over $15 for shipping, AFTER I gave them my credit card information!
Oh well. I guess that's how some people roll.
James. :)
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you have to agree to all charges when buying online.. its the law.. so if they charge you shipping without giving you a chance to review the shipping cost.. then thats a poroblem
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I had the option of bailing out on the whole order.
Still sux.
James. :)
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I got my glue today!
YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Guess what I'll be doing today!
James. :)
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Huffing glue?
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I don't think so....
This stuff looks like it will be a lot easer to work with that I thought.
It comes in an aluminum tube, but it's already open. There is no air tight seal to pop. That tells me that this stuff probably has a decent shelf life and should not be such a pain in the butt to transfer to a syringe or something similar for spreading out a perfect thin line.
Also, 5oz. is a LOT more glue than I expected!
I've got 3 really BIG tubes of glue!
James. :)
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WOW!
Look what this thing turned into !!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I have to put this one in a box and ship it away! :'( ;) ;D
IT WORKS GREAT !!!
The knob is on a stacked, stereo 100K audio taper potentiometer. It gives you a very nice X & Y image size from nothing to max.
It has stereo RCA outputs for audio with improved decoupling caps.
It has a full set of 8 correction amps in case you need to use all channels for laser signals.
It is patch configurable (no soldering) to allow you to matrix the sound card DAC channels into the device in any order.
You can use or not use the scale pot.
You can patch any signal to the ILDA connetor for X, Y, R, G, B, aux_1, aux_2, aux_3 in any order.
It provides a +5VDC TTL level for the shutter on pin 13 and an onboard jumper between 4 & 17 for the safety interlock.
It can do X, Y, R, G, B, I and L_audio, R_audio all together, perfectly timed to the sample!
I am also developing a lot in the areas of the LaserBoy code that will give us more tools to work with laser and audio signals together in the same multi channel wave.
James. :)
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And some more...
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and a couple more... ::)
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PERFECT!
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It's alive! ALIVE!
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It's not quite perfect or alive. ::)
It's the first-ever, hand-made, one-of-a-kind ........
So what should I call this thing anyway ? ???
The LB-3000 ::) ;D
mmmmmmm no. anyway...
It's SOOOOOOOO COOL to have laser shows WITH AUDIO !!!!
Hey drlava!
We should get together some of the 6 channel USB cards and make them into 8 channel DACs with some of the remaining pcb you have!
I'll build them!
I really think it would be great if everyone on this forum could get into 8 channel DACing, if they wanted to.
There is a lot of software development to do. The more ideas we have the better!
Now I have to get busy and make one for myself! ;D
James. :)
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I have one of the printed circuit board correction amp, does anyone know what changes I need to make so it would work with the 8 channel board made by USB Gear?
Gary
I would recommend building it as-is and using a modified 6 channel USB DAC (that actually has an 8 channel DAC chip on it).
DrLava has access to a microscope that he can solder under. He has successfully tacked wires onto the otherwise unused pins of the tiny chip itself. They work fine as DC coupled and offset 7 & 8.
I wanna' know how to do this too!
I'd be glad to help you get it together.
If you already have an 8 channel USB sound device, hang onto it! We'll get that going too!
8 channel USB:
http://usbgear.com/computer_cable_details.cfm?sku=USBG-SOUND-71&cats=121&catid=121%2C637%2C136\
6 channel USB (8 the hard way)
THIS IS THE ONE THAT THE PCB WAS DISIGNED FOR !!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/6-Channel-PCI-External-Moveable-USB-5-1-Sound-Card-5IN1_W0QQitemZ350169560403QQihZ022QQcategoryZ75519QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Maybe we could do a group buy on the 6 channel cards and save some money. I know the eBay sellers will deal.
James. :)
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YAWN!........
Always a critic!
Now THAT is perfect AND alive! ;D
James. :)
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"DrLava has access to a microscope that he can solder under" I need all the help I can get. My soldering skills are not that good!
Gary
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OMG its infected with critters...
YOu know i love the thing but here is what I would add.
Power switch, Audio Volume, DC Power input (so i dont have to run it off my laptop) with a selector for USB power or "ac" power..
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You toucha my DAC i breaka your face...
(http://akrobiz.com/laserboy/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8.0;attach=233;image)
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I have one of the printed circuit board correction amp, does anyone know what changes I need to make so it would work with the 8 channel board made by USB Gear?
Gary
OK. Let's try this again...
It has come to my attention, recently, that drlava sent out some LaserBoy Correction Amp Kits with all 12 pots at 50K.
In the original kit, the offset trimmers were 10K.
Replacing these with 50K will allow this design to be able to offset a lower DC voltage. The only cost is that you will have less resolution or rotation on the pots.
James. :)
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Thanks James;
In the kit I have, the offset trimmers were 10K and 50K, will upgrade all pots to 50k.
Gary
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I just went to Akron Antique Audio and said "Hey man! Can I get a nut in here?"
"Hell yeah!"
I got my nuts in a bag!
And some retro knobs too!
James. :)
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What does that even mean?!?!?
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Well.......
Years ago I got a nice box of electronic junk from some guy who had no idea what any of it was. He got it from a bankruptcy.
So he gave it to me!
It was a bunch of audio stuff.
In there were some really nice electret mic capsules and some other stuff, plus a whole mess of 100K stacked stereo audio taper pots..... with no washers or nuts!
So today, I got a bag of nuts!
I use the pots for laser image size and audio output for the LaserBoy DACs that I'm making.
It's just that simple!
James. :)
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Hi there,
You might know me from the PL forum, though I'm not really an active poster there, just an active reader ;). I have always worked with Norm's DAC but when I started to build my new projector with analog diode drivers I found out that Norm's DAC doens't feature analog output :'(. Soooooooo since I don't have enough money for an FB3 or anything else, why not give laserboy a shot :D.
But since I'm a bit lazy ;D I was wondering if the correction amp kit is still for sale (http://hacylon.case.edu/ebay/laser_diode/LaserBoy_Correction_Amp.php (http://hacylon.case.edu/ebay/laser_diode/LaserBoy_Correction_Amp.php))?
And if not, where can I find the most recent schematic of the correction amp?
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Hey James!
I whined the other day of how you placed DC blocking caps in series
with the wipers of your volume control. I suggested that you just use the
caps on the USB itself (that was a bad idea, because it requires 2 more
wires coming off of the audio card).
Since you already have external caps, connect them in series with the pot
instead of the wiper. The caps will charge to full level on powerup and stay
put; if they're in series with the wiper, the DC feed would change with volume
setting (depending on your rig, the woofers could bounce around with a quick
change in volume, as well as having higher susceptibility to wiper noise).
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Well that means that the volume pot and the RCA jacks would be married together.
I get what you're saying now though....
The way it is now, I can eliminate both of the pots from the system just by changing the solderless wire connections.
I guess I could decouple the audio volume pot itself and decouple the RCA jack, but that's just weird!
I'd have to use a much higer uF value on the pot, because it would be in series with the cap on the jack.
I like it the way it is for now.
James. :)
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Hi there,
You might know me from the PL forum, though I'm not really an active poster there, just an active reader ;). I have always worked with Norm's DAC but when I started to build my new projector with analog diode drivers I found out that Norm's DAC doens't feature analog output :'(. Soooooooo since I don't have enough money for an FB3 or anything else, why not give laserboy a shot :D.
But since I'm a bit lazy ;D I was wondering if the correction amp kit is still for sale (http://hacylon.case.edu/ebay/laser_diode/LaserBoy_Correction_Amp.php (http://hacylon.case.edu/ebay/laser_diode/LaserBoy_Correction_Amp.php))?
And if not, where can I find the most recent schematic of the correction amp?
Hi Frixxion!
Welcome to The LaserBoy Forum!
I know that we can get you a printed circuit board and the DC/DC converter. I'm not sure drlava has all the parts for whole kits or not. All the other parts are pretty common.
James. :)
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ok thnx! I'll see if I can get in touch with drlava
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Woohoo, just ordered my correction amp kit :). I'll probably get a Sweex SC004V2 5.1 USB soundcard to go with it. Any one have some more info about this one? Is there anything special or out of the ordinary about it that I should know?
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The Sweex appears to be the same as the USBGEAR 8 channel USB thing.
Nice!
James. :)
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hmmm, is that a good or a bad thing :S because I read that it leaves some of the colors on and stuf :S and I really don't want that to happen!
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Keep in mind, it is just the DAC! There are some other electronics that need to be developed in order to make this a more intelligent laser projection control system.
BTW there are a few good choices out there for 8 channel PCI sound cards too.
James. :)
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Never mind, I just mail ordered a trust 5.1 USB sound card and got it in today. Immediatly opened it up and it looked extremely simple :D. I could post a picture if you like?
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Pictues!
Yes please!
Someone posted a pic of a 6 channel "blue box" that he just got and the card inside was different than the original ones that I and drlava worked with. The new one appears to use the same chip as the 8 channel device that is the object of this thread.
http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6940
The first chip was a CM-106L.
The newer one is a CM-6206.
They are both 8 channel DACs with USB smarts and Dolby 7.1 capability.
James. :)
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Ok, here it is:
(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/229/concrete004.jpg)
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4369/concrete003.jpg)
It looks pretty straight forward to me where to get the signals from... Also, the IC is a CM6207, is that a good or a bad thing (A)?
BTW I have already boxed the soundcard, but I'm still waiting for my correction amp... Dr sent it out past monday, so it should be here any day now :D
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What is that !!! ???
I think you found a whole new animal there!
I've never seen that board or heard of that chip before.
This sould be interesting!
James. :)
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What is that !!! ???
I think you found a whole new animal there!
I've never seen that board or heard of that chip before.
This sould be interesting!
James. :)
Ah crap..... And I was hoping there would be tons of people with the same card so I could ask all my questions...
Oh well, I'll just wait for my correction amp to arrive and then I'll see :)
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Ah crap..... And I was hoping there would be tons of people with the same card so I could ask all my questions...
You're a pioneer!
There are things you can measure right now that will be very important to know!
Have you found all of the direct outputs from the DAC chip?
Are they as easy to get to as to simply tack wires on the signal sides of the output decoupling caps?
When you have the card up in Windows and set to the 8 channel mode, what is the DC offset voltage that you read on the direct output of each channel of the DAC?
If you want to, we can also go over how to use LaserBoy to make waves that will tell you which wave channel comes out which DAC channel.
We can also set the levels of each channel to just below digital clipping (requires a scope).
What OS are you using?
Do you have Spider Player, WinAMP and VLC?
James. :)
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Ok, I've got it al finished up :D.
When at silence, the card (raw signal) puts out 2,2 vdc (don't remember if it is -or +). These raw signals are extremely easy to find. They are the only 6 lines that run to the (only) 6 caps on the card. Then with some reasoning it is easy to figure out where the XYRGB signals are going to come from.
So, I have hooked up my correction amp and got it all running. The board also has a very cool feature of a blinking LED when a sound is played. This LED also goes to full on when no sound is played, very handy!
Also James, this thing doesn't have an 8 channel mode, there are only 5 jacks on it, mic, line, front, rear, sub/center. So it is only made for 5.1 sound. Also, there is not really a driver provided with the box :( so I am forced to use the windows soundconfigurationscreen.
I'll open up a thread on PL with some pics and info on where to find the signals. I can post this on here also if you want to?
And also, what is this digital clipping? And is it required? Because I've got it all set up already, haven't hooked it up to my scanners yet because I first want to test it on my uncle scope :D. I'll post some pics of the results of the scoping next week or so, because I'm going to my uncle on sunday :).
Btw, I absolutely hate winamp so I won't be using that :P, VLC looks easy and I might try Spider Player, but I prefer to use a proper laser program, so I might look at buying HE-Laserscan :)
Jordy
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Of course I want you to post pictures and stuff here!
Digital clipping is what happens when the sound card driver multiplies the numerical data (obviously on the digital side) by some number greater than 1 to boost the output before it goes into the DAC. This works OK for digital information that doesn't come too close to the absolute maximum and minimum values that can be stored in a 16-bit signed integer, but if you KNOW you have signals that hit the extreems, they will be clipped. Meaning, the tops and bottoms of the waves will get chopped off. Your full-scan-sized circles will have flat sides and your color modulation will lose variation at the top end.
VLC might put your wave channels in a weird order.
So this USB thing came with no driver at all?
That's weird!
Could you please post a link to the exact device that you bought?
James. :)
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what are the VEN and DEV for that device
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Happy eastern everyone!
Ok, so I just checked my DAC out on my uncle's scope and found out that it was working fabulous! Only one downside, the 5v from the USB was all over the place (4,940 - 5) >:(. So the scope images weren't still, they where moving :(. But still the Ilda pattern showed up nicely :). I did make some pictures, but I forgot to take my camera cable with me, so I'll post them soon :).
Ven and Dev means Vendor and Device I assume? If so ;) Vendor is Trust and it is the SC-5500P 5.1 External Soundcard. It did arrive with a driver disc, but nothing fancy, the driver is only to make it work if windows doesn't have a built-in driver for it.
My uncle has a very stable 5v PSU, so we're going to see if that improves things :)
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Sounds good!
I've seen USB voltages below +5 lots of times; more often than not.
I've never seen a USB voltage that changed a lot over time.
One of the easiest ways to get around this is to get a powered USB hub.
James. :)
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Install the driver that came on the disk.. Windows drivers suck and the mfg driver often comes with a nice control pannel
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nice piece of hardware pefect build!!!
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This might be useful! :)
This is the back of the USB SND8 sound card typically used to make a LaserBoy DAC.
Laser signals are in magenta. The yellow L & R is left and right audio. These do not need to be tapped before the audio output decoupling caps. It's better to just use the associated jack for standard stereo audio out.
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For some reason, the last two USB-SND8 boards I modified have the first 2 channels (front left and right aka X and Y) reversed!
No big deal. Just flip the channels in the amp board wiring. But I thought I should report this!
You might find this or not.
James. :)
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I have also noticed that when using this card with the Raspberry Pi and presumably any other ALSA Linux system, the side and rear channels are transposed. In other words, channels 5 and 6 are swapped with channels 7 and 8!
I know there is a way to change the ALSA sound device routing to make ALSA order the channels the same way as Windows, but I don't have that figured out yet.
In the mean time, I just swapped the wires.
James.