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Offline no-esc

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My first build
« on: September 18, 2009, 12:54:23 am »
-No Pictures yet.  This is still in design phase.

(bckgrnd on myself...)

I have been a laser show groupie for a long time.
Started back in HI in 1995-98 in the small Underground Techno music scene.  With a man known as Hollywood Doc and his "Water Cooled Green Laser".  I used to spend hours with a Joystick and a Commodore 64 making single line drawings...for his shows.. Not to mention the hours spent on 40ft ladders in warehouse adjusting mirrors... LOL

Anyway fast forward a 10+ years spread over ME,HI,WA,MD,WV....
During this time I was a Professional BEDROOM DJ  ;)
Spinning Acid Techno (Breaks, House, Minimal, Goa_attic (my own spelling/creation)
I spun records that contained what I called deemed:
That one ACIDIC Sound/Tone/Harmonic.... that can invoke a 3 axis hearing spacial fractal ..ramble ramble.. oooh pretty lights.. :)

I have spent approximately past 2 months researching various DIY laser show/projector projects.  Everything from HD Laser Show to the Stereo Galvometers.

I can follow schematics, Solder and disassemble just about anything.

ok.. enough rambling about me...


For today I will just list my attempt at a price comparison online research list:


First up is Completed Store Bought Systems:

Laser DMX Stage Show RGB (NO PC CONTROL)

405nm 120mW
532nm 70mW
650nm 120mW
www.ebay.com (310mW RGB) Total Price: $325.00


290mW DMX Disco (NO PC CONTROL)

405nm 100mW
532nm 40Mw
650nm 150mW
Play modes: sound control, AUTO and DMX512 (7 channels)
Scanner: N1.8 high precision stepper motor
Model Number:Reke-08RPG
Total Without Shipping: US$ 235 - US$ 250


560mW RGP Seven Color (PC CONTROL)

405nm 200mw
532nm 60mW
650nm 300mW
Play mode (s): sound active, AUTO, DMX512 (12 channels), ILDA PC
Scanner: high speed optical scanner 10K
Model Number:Reke-97RGP
Total Without Shipping: US$ 480 - US$ 550


DIY _ PRICES_PARTIAL ASSEMBLY COMPONENT STYLE:

1. PT-ITRUST USD50/pc   Controller Card to PC.
2. LCD-DMX : USD50/pc   Screen for box Mount for use without PC.
3. SP20K: USD88/set  X Y Scanners.
www.spacelas.com   Total: w/o shipping $188.00

405nm 120mW  $99.00
532nm 60mW  $69.00
650nm 150mW  $45.00
www.O-Like.com    Total: w/o shipping $213.00


Build it Myself: TOTAL Without Shipping: $401.00 For RGV
Build it Myself: TOTAL Without Shipping: $287.00 For Violet 120mW
Build it Myself: TOTAL Without Shipping: $257.00 For Green 60mW
Build it Myself: TOTAL Without Shipping: $233.00 For Red 150mW

 (+60USD) for beam combiners.... added to the RGV.


I am more inclined to buying/supporting the parts/component builders on here...

Feel free to toss me some advice.. Tell me to STFU  O0 (Love that EMOTICON)  Reminds me of a guy named TYLER who used to do lasers in SEATAC area..

Anyway any input is appreciated...

Once my ADHD/VOICE riddled head can make a decision and purchase components/equip I will keep a good photo diary.

oh yeah.. The GOAL/OBJECTIVE:

A PC/AUTO(Sound Sensitive) Laser Show RGB (the RGB is a longterm goal)


v/r

Len




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Offline no-esc

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Re: My first build
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2009, 01:24:32 am »
Forgot to add in ..

-I am also working on a X Y scanner set utilizing R/C Servo's..

the goal here is making a xy scanner that a laserpointer can be pointed at.. making it small compact and portable :)
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Offline Lazerjock

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Re: My first build
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2009, 07:23:07 am »
R/C servos don't move nearly fast enough to use as scanners. They may be able to be used for beam positioning, but they jitter quite a bit. The beam would never be stationary. I have been flying R/C for the last 10 years and have built all sorts of things using servos. One was a pan/tilt camera rig for my helicopter. It worked, but the servos never held solid.

With all of the experience gathered in this forum we can help you get something going.

I guess the first question you need to ask yourself is, how much are you willing to invest into this project. That will determine which equipment you will need to buy.

If you are going to DIY. You need to look at: (You may have some of this already)

Computer & Software
DAC (Digital to Analog Converter)
Amplifier
Scanners
Lasers (Red, Green, Blue & or Vilot)
Optics
Misc. Hardware (Ex: optics mounts, case, base plate, nuts & bolts)
Switches, Cables

I think that most everything.

If you give us links to check out the equipment you are considering we can give you better feedback.


Welcome to the forum.

Lazerjock
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Agent C

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Re: My first build
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2009, 10:34:15 am »
I have some of the SpaceLas scanners.  They are ok.  Your end construction result sounds cool - a sound responsive RGV laser show, but what is your goal.  Are you going to augment your performances, drag it out to house parties, move up to higher power lasers, just hobby?

People on the forum will disagree with me on this, but your price points seem pretty low.  Lasers have a habit of making you spend more than you thought you would.  That's why I'm asking where you plan to use it, because it sucks to spend some money, be unhappy with what you got, and need to spend more money.  I was going for the RGV thing too, but then I saw Dr. Lava's 473 nm blue and it kicks the blu-ray diodes out a 6 story window.  I will probably go with RGBV in the end.

On the compact thing - Most scanner and amp boards are tiny nowdays.  I don't do RC stuff but I can't imagine anything being more compact than the SpaceLas scanners I have.  Also, a modest power diode won't be much bigger than a laser pointer and the hardware needed to hold the laser pointer in place.
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Offline James

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Re: My first build
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2009, 03:26:51 pm »
This is excellent! I get to sit here and read about what to do and what not to do when building a solid state rig!

There is one thing I would like to point out here:

Be careful about what you put into writing! Craft your words carefully. There are federal laws about money changing hands in exchange for working lasers. Sometimes it is legal, from a licensed source. Sometimes it is not. All I am saying is, don't write anything like "I just broke the law today..." We all know that we are not criminals here. Just don't make a public record of the purchase of a working laser, unless it is from a licensed laser vendor.

...unless you are from outside of The States.

I would also add... I too have see the fabulous 473 and sure I like it! But I have also seen Lazerjock's rig that is RGV (405) and it works for me! I'm not so sure the 473 is worth all the bucks right now. I'd like to get together everything else before I even think about that. Plus, I would want 405 in my rig regardless. That violet is just too cool!  ;D

DPSS lasers like green and blue do not modulate as well as pure diode lasers like red and violet.

Probably the first thing to scope out is the scanners and amps. Lasers are common enough that you will have more than you need before you know it. The scanners will ultimately determine the quality of your image. I'd say, spend some time and money getting the right scanners!

James.  :)

PS. Make sure your scanner mirrors are good from red to violet! Some of them are very poor at reflecting 405nm.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 04:31:33 pm by James »
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Offline Fanny Pack

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Re: My first build
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2009, 05:48:28 pm »
I have heard you can mix a little green in with the 405nm to make it more blue looking.  I plan on adding a color mixing feature to Spaghetti so that you can, for example, specify adding 5% green to your violet.  This might make the RGV systems look more like RGB systems. 
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Offline BlinkenLights

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Re: My first build
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2009, 09:09:12 pm »
nice
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Offline no-esc

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Re: My first build
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2009, 04:34:51 am »
WOW what a great response thanks everyone.


I guess the first question you need to ask yourself is, how much are you willing to invest into this project?

-See answer to the next question :)

Are you going to augment your performances, drag it out to house parties, move up to higher power lasers, just hobby?



-Hobby for now (I like projects) estimated: $400 to $800

(This will be for private viewing aka mine only)



Computer & Software  Computer yes, Software still researching
DAC (Digital to Analog Converter)  I have a pci to external SBAudigy Live that I can tear apart for this (It was teh one that had all the recording inputs in a box that connected to the pci slot)
Amplifier Not yet still deciding
Scanners Not yet still deciding
Lasers (Red, Green, Blue & or Vilot) Not yet still deciding
Optics Not yet still deciding
Misc. Hardware (Ex: optics mounts, case, base plate, nuts & bolts)  This is all gonna depend on physical size of components.
Switches, Cables Tons of lighted switches, I can build any cable any connector style..  (one of the bonuses of working for the Engineering Development Lab for about 6months was that I was building cables per schematics all day)


Be careful about what you put into writing! Craft your words carefully.

I do not think I said anything in the prior posts.  However my understanding of actual laser laws is a bit limited.  Is Sams Guide a good place to start?  I have that bookmarked.  Does anyone have a quick down and dirty List somewhere? 



I have a feeling that this is going to lead me on a exciting journey over the next couple of years.

Ok back to work... :)

ps.  Thanks again for all the input so far.  I do not have my office/studio set up at home yet so my surfing is pretty limited to work for the time being...

thanks again

L

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Offline James

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Re: My first build
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2009, 03:36:53 pm »
I would not recomend any Sound Blaster audio device for modification.

For some reason, they are really hard to figure out. It is difficult to find the DC coupled signal straight out of the DAC.

If you are going to use a PCI board, take a look at any sound card that uses the C-Media 8768 or the VIA 1712.

The C-Media is the most straight forward. It's a piece of cake!

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=CL-S8768-8

BTW, If anyone has a C-Media 8768 card, please make an iso out of the driver disk and send it to me! I got my cards about 5 years ago and I can't find my drivers! I can get the driver from Windows Update, but I don't have the sound card control panel.

EDIT: Never mind. I found it!  ;D

Quote
I do not think I said anything in the prior posts.

Sorry, if I implied that. I was just putting out some general advice for anyone who might chime in on this or any other thread.

Besides that... "Modify" is a marvolous forum feature!  ;) ;D

James.  :)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 02:11:39 am by James »
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Agent C

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Re: My first build
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2009, 01:13:08 pm »
Also remember that you can start with one analog modulated laser, say a 300mw greenie DPSS, and add a red and blue later.  You can do alot with XY-I when you are just getting started.
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Offline meandean

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Re: My first build
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2009, 10:18:17 pm »
Quote
I would not recomend any Sound Blaster audio device for modification.


Amen!!! O0
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Offline James

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Re: My first build
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2009, 01:48:37 am »
I've been working with PCI sound cards for the past few days.

I finally made a breakthrough when I found the little box with all of the driver disks I put in it 5 years ago. I have 4 cards; 2 of them are VIA and 2 of them are C-Media.

I goofed around all day with the C-Media, thinking that it was all going in the right direction. For some reason, XP saw the card as an 8738; which is the 6 channel version of the chip. But when I ran setup from the CD it replaced the driver and installed a bunch of demo junk and a control panel!

After several sessions with a solding iron, I eventually got a prototype version of the LaserBoy Correction Amp tweaked up and was measuring the proper voltages and signals.

BUT..... as soon as I played an 8 channel wave with audio in tracks 7 & 8, and listened to that audio, I noticed it sounded like CRAP!

It was all jittery and skipping. So were the signals!

With the VIA card, I got no hooplah at all. It just came up. Windows found a driver for it and that was that. There are no special controls of any kind.

It seems to work very well.

One major difference between these chips is that the C-Media will allow you to digitally clip. If you turn up the volume of wave and master to max, you are clipping! The VIA does not have any digital gain. Max on the wave and the master volume is right where you want it.

Another major difference is absolute phase! The C-Media is non-inverting and the VIA is an inverter. So the end result, since the LaserBoy Amp is an inverter, is that the VIA plays wave in positive phase and the C-Media plays wave in negative phase.

All of this was discovered on an BIM Netvista P4 1.8 with 1GB, running XP Pro.

I'll try the C-Media card in Linux and let you know.

But for now, I would call it a turd.

Look for a PCI card that does Dolby 7.1 with a VIA chip on it!

Looks like this:

ENCORE ENM232-8VIA

is the one that is out there now.

I have not tried this one yet.

I think this is the best deal:

http://www.outletpc.com/c5234.html

James.  :)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 02:20:50 pm by James »
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Offline Fanny Pack

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Re: My first build
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2009, 06:50:21 pm »
DUDE!  Stop editting your posts.  Now I have to read the whole thing over and figure out what bit you changed!  Just add a new post.
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Offline James

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Re: My first build
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2009, 07:51:47 pm »
That's the awesome thing about this forum!

It's like a fine wine....

It just keeps getting better over time.

James.  :)
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Offline BlinkenLights

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Re: My first build
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2009, 09:46:03 pm »
James he is right.. done edit LONG posts unless you then post and let everyone know what you edited...
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