Topic: Exactly why this forum exists

[James]

Do you hear that?

Bump, bump,  bump,  bump,  bump....

That's me banging my head against the wall! 

James. 

[Absolom]

Boys, boys.  I see both points.  I really do.  James, I remember what you said not too long ago, that the best engineering is working with something that is already available.  I agree with that.  But I see Gary's point too.  LaserBoy is frame and animation creation software.  But on the other side, how would you manipulate the WAVs in real time with all the cool effects that come with a live player, rotation, skew...  A new file format WOULDN'T be a bad thing.  Something proprietary to laser software that makes sense and is written to cater to everything that we want it to.  I do like the idea of a clicking on an icon without any software, but it means you have to have done all of your effects beforehand and add them to the file.

For the record, Pearl Jam would destroy anything, not just scanners.  Ugh.  Eddy Vedder, just... ugh.  If I were to destroy my scanners, I would at least do it with VNV or Apoptygma!

[James]

As the technology develops, it will become possible to elliminate the time gap between rendering a wave and sending it out the scanners.

Deans software already generates waves WAY faster than they can be played. Technically speaking, so does LaserBoy. It just requires a bit more setup.

If you're not using LaserBoy to make waves to play on your sound card and LaserBoy Correction Amp, you're missing out on a whole lot of the point of it!

James. 

[Fanny Pack]

Ah, an Industrial fan, eh?  Same here but more old school... Ministry, Skinny Puppy, Nitzer Ebb.  But, I just saw Combichrist a month or so ago and they put on a great show.  There is a new Revolting Cocks CD coming out soon that I am excited about... actually more excited about seeing them when they come to town.

[Fanny Pack]

As the technology develops, it will become possible to elliminate the time gap between rendering a wave and sending it out the scanners.

Deans software already generates waves WAY faster than they can be played. Technically speaking, so does LaserBoy. It just requires a bit more setup.

If you're not using LaserBoy to make waves to play on your sound card and LaserBoy Correction Amp, you're missing out on a whole lot of the point of it!

James. 

The stuff you are talking about can already be done with the USB DACs and in a much easier way since they are designed specifically for that purpose.  And, technology will push more brains into the laser DACs so that they automatically do color and blanking correction.  That functionality will NEVER exist in sound cards and you will always have to do it in software.  There will eventually be a handful of really smart laser DACs that are low priced and it will be easy for developers to create nice applications for sending laser data to them since they won't have to be bothered with how to optimize every little vector.  That is not true with what you are proposing.  It will be the responsibility of every laser application to optimize the data before it is sent to the sound card. 

Think about video cards, they keep getting smarter and smarter with more processing power being pushed onto them to take the burder off the main computer.  The same type of thing will happen with DACs, except in your case, because you want the DAC to be a stupid sound card that does nothing but convert digital to audio.  You are going to be so left behind with your WAV files.

[James]

Smarts is smarts. Nothing happens inside a computer without SOME KIND of software. It doesn't really matter if its in an application, a driver or in the firmware inside the device. It ALL has to come from somewhere. It all has to be invented, developed and supported.

There was a time that the idea of a "video card" was nothing but a dream!

James. 

[meandean]

  Ooooohhhh please...

  The wave & modified sound card concept is just one of several options (the more the better) for a laser hobbiest (it's about choice); ANY approach has its advantages and disadvantages- it puzzles me that someone would casually dismiss something that they haven't even tried (especially when it's FREEware).

[BlinkenLights]

firmware.. nice idea.. there are ways to write your own firmware that would make the sound card dacs smarter..

We should look into that

[Fanny Pack]

firmware.. nice idea.. there are ways to write your own firmware that would make the sound card dacs smarter..

We should look into that

Not likely since sound cards are all chip based with no way to modify their intelligence.  If you are really hard set on using WAV files to transport data you should consider designing your own USB device, disguising it as a soundcard so that Windows thinks that is what it is.  Then you have an intelligent device that you can modify the firmware on and still click on icons and make laser shows play from WinAmp.

[Fanny Pack]

 Ooooohhhh please...

  The wave & modified sound card concept is just one of several options (the more the better) for a laser hobbiest (it's about choice); ANY approach has its advantages and disadvantages- it puzzles me that someone would casually dismiss something that they haven't even tried (especially when it's FREEware).

I have tried it.  I have a sound card DAC.  I am not dismissing sound card dacs as solutions.  I think they work just fine.  What I am dismissing is James' assertion that WAV files are the way to go for future development.  For what you are doing now, I think that is a perfectly suitable solution.  For where I want to go, and where I see others going, I don't see WAV files as being a good fit.  It's easier to design a perfect solution that fits the problem than to fit everything into a WAV file just because it already exists.  I don't buy into the notion that being able to play laser shows from Windows Media Player is a good thing.  Would you want to use a media player that didn't have a volume control or a way to adjust bass or treble?  I wouldn't.  By using a media player to play laser shows that's what you are essentially doing, though.  That is not even remotely acceptable to me.

[meandean]

  When it comes to passively blowing out a wave in a player, it's about getting your cookies straight when you generate the wave in the first place, so you don't have to adjust the bass & treble after the fact!!! Have you actually tried playing with LaserWave???

[meandean]

  I'm not suggesting that formatted wave is a solution to everything- I'd like to meet the genius who could create a single format to satisfy everyone, in every case...

[James]

EXACTLY!

It is a great solution that has real value in the market of ideas.

An 8 channel USB sound card is also an exact hardware replacement for an ADAT machine.

And before you go laughing some more about the use of ADAT, do a little research!

It's still out there. It's still in use. And there are THOUSANDS of great shows on ADAT tapes.

The 8 channel USB sound card DAC is exactly what is needed to bring the 1990's technology of ADAT into the 21st Century!

There is a reason why you can buy brand new computer audio devices that support ADAT LightPipe.

It works!

James. 

[Fanny Pack]

Well, I don't know what to say.  Basing future development of laser show technology on the ability to play shows that were written in the past is not forward thinking at all.  You seem satisified with basing LaserBoy around old ideas.  That's fine because it is always good to have apps that can be used for playing back old programs, shows, etc.  I guess the difference in our opinions stem from that.  I am thinking more about future development of laser shows and ways to make it easier for the user to draw and ways to make the shows more generic and self explaining to the laser show software and hardware. 

[BlinkenLights]

WHY do you 2 always focus on where you disagree..

I agree with hyena that the wav file will never be the end all be all file format.. it simply cant..

we need something like Macromedia .fla/.swf format.

but at some point that data MUST be converted into signals that a dac can understand.. Adding firmware that could in the hardware convert the data into the appropriate voltage or offset on whatever on the fly is an interesting idea..

 maybe even using linux in a chip to create a smart dac (as suggested above)